HELP! Satsuki Azalea Dying

[Shima]

I lost 2 satsuki about a month ago, suddenly. Been doing all the "right" things. Leaves turned brown almost overnight. Been over-thinking it ever since.

 

[fredman]

I lost 2 satsuki about a month ago, suddenly. Been doing all the "right" things. Leaves turned brown almost overnight. Been over-thinking it ever since.

I know the feeling. I had about them in pumice/bark. First year went swell. Second year they started dying...no apparent reason. That's when I took them all out and planted them in the ground. We've been eyeing each other for 4 years now...pots and kanuma are ready for the next round.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Keeping Satsuki alive and healthy is not rocket science. There is no need to complicate things unnecessarily.

@fredman - if your water is less than 250 ppm total dissolved solids, or if your total alkalinity of your water is less than 200 mg/liter as calcium carbonate, you should have no trouble growing Satsuki azalea in just about any mix you choose. Kanuma, or a generic ericaceous mix should work fine.

I like Kanuma, because it holds a lot of water. I can usually go 2 to 3 days between watering my azalea. Because I sift the Kanuma before use, it has no fines, I can water more often and there is still plenty. of air getting to the roots. It is really easy to use.

Azalea are some of the longest lived trees in my collection. I have a few that survived my "health issues" some 11 years ago and are now coming up on 20 years in my care. Trust me, even though I have many years of experience, my care is not any where near as consistent as one would think for the amount of experience I have. That said. I do occasionally pick up new azalea. And every once in a while I get an azalea that does take a catastrophic crash, and suddenly expires on my, much like @Shima describes. For no apparent reason they occasionally drop dead. Yet I still have 3 of a group of 5 that I bought almost 20 years ago, and they are all doing well.

So just dive in and give Kanuma a try. Remember, sift it for particle size before you start.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

If you have bad water, that is extremely high in calcium, and live in a desert climate where collecting rain water to water your bonsai is not an option. I suggest you try to grow something else, as azalea are difficult if you have bad irrigation water. Juniper tolerate high calcium water. Certain pines do too. At some point you have to accept you can no grow everything, everywhere.

There are many trees I do not grow, because my climate will not allow it.

 

[Shima]

.pots and kanuma are ready for the next round.

I was using kanuma. Feeling smug and probably over-confident.

 

[fredman]

There is no need to complicate things unnecessarily.

Yeah i've been known to be a things complicator. I'm trying to simplify, but that's not always easy...the mind keeps rebelling
Thanks for that Leo

 

[fredman]

I was using kanuma. Feeling smug and probably over-confident.

Stop it now @Shima ... you're complicating things
I'll be around them like a mother goose

 

[Shima]

Stop it now @Shima ... you're complicating things
I'll be around them like a mother goose

At least I'm good at something!

 

[rawlyn]

Remember, sift it for particle size before you start.

Hi @Leo in N E Illinois - Thanks as always for your advice. I have 2 quick follow up questions re: particle size.

Firstly, what’s the danger we avoid by sifting? Is it just to eliminate fine particles and thereby avoid creation of root-suffocating mud? Or is there something else driving that counsel?

And secondly, is the sifting sufficiently important to justify repotting a garden center azalea that had (hypothetically, of course) been root pruned and hastily potted in an *unsifted* kanuma mix a couple of weeks ago? Or is it better to leave well enough alone, ride out the summer and hope it can recover from the pruning despite the ill-advised soil?

Thx

- Mike

 

[bunjin]

Drainage is the main issue solved by screening Kanuma. Also I have tried growing cuttings in the fines and they do not seem to do very well in it. I think the fine particles are generated mostly during shipping of the soft Kanuma. Sometimes one gets lucky and a bag or two will be fine-free. Your azalea is probably okay unless you used the bottom of the bag where all the fines accumulate.

 

[BugsBonsai]

You are in Michigan. I've never had to water twice a day until maybe when the 90F heat hit. Possible the 2 times a day was too much?

I lift the pot, look at the Kanuma visible through the drainage hole. If the kanuma there begins to get light in color, then it's time to water.

It's possible it was too wet. Alternative is to dig in an inch or so to decide if the kanuma is wet. The surface dryness can be misleading.

Since reading this, I’ve started to be way more observant about my watering. I check the bottom instead of the top for kanuma color change, and have moved from watering every day to about every 3 days! So, I have a feeling that was my main issue. The tree isn’t getting any worse (as in he’s still pliable on every branch), so hopefully this is helping. Should I be fertilizing with anything specific, or nixing the fertilizer until he (hopefully) gets his footing back? Thank you so much for your advice and help!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Since reading this, I’ve started to be way more observant about my watering. I check the bottom instead of the top for kanuma color change, and have moved from watering every day to about every 3 days! So, I have a feeling that was my main issue. The tree isn’t getting any worse (as in he’s still pliable on every branch), so hopefully this is helping. Should I be fertilizing with anything specific, or nixing the fertilizer until he (hopefully) gets his footing back? Thank you so much for your advice and help!

I would hold off on fertilizer. No fertilizer until after you see some new growth. You need healthy leaves, and growing shoots for fertilizer to do any good. Your tree probably has stored quite a bit of nutrients already. Azalea, and most trees do "conserve" nutrients, they often have enough stored that they can grow for a year or more without added fertilizer. Too much fertilizer, especially on a stressed plant can inhibit root formation and actually damage the tree. So never fertilize a injured, or stress tree, especially when the stressor is something abiotic, like overwatering or underwatering. Get the tree growing. After you see new growth wait maybe a month, then begin fertilizing.

The exception is when an otherwise healthy tree the foliage changes color to one of the patterns that are characteristic of a nutrient deficiency. The tree will otherwise look healthy. It takes some experience to diagnose nutrient deficiencies. But right now this is not your problem. Worry about nutrition, next year, after you get the tree growing better.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Hi @Leo in N E Illinois - Thanks as always for your advice. I have 2 quick follow up questions re: particle size.

Firstly, what’s the danger we avoid by sifting? Is it just to eliminate fine particles and thereby avoid creation of root-suffocating mud? Or is there something else driving that counsel?

Suffocating roots, is the main issue we avoid by sifting media. Removing fines makes for better air penetration. The more uniform the particle size, the greater amount of air voids in the media. The wider the range of particles, the less air the mix will hold. For example a mix where all the particles are 0.5 cm to 1.0 cm, will hold much more air than a mix that is 0.2 cm to 1.5 cm. The later mix will settle and compact much more than the mix with a more narrow range of particle sizes.

And secondly, is the sifting sufficiently important to justify repotting a garden center azalea that had (hypothetically, of course) been root pruned and hastily potted in an *unsifted* kanuma mix a couple of weeks ago? Or is it better to leave well enough alone, ride out the summer and hope it can recover from the pruning despite the ill-advised soil?
Thx
- Mike

In general, if the pot drains freely when you water, I would say it is "good enough" that I would not put the azalea through the stress of repotting a second time in the same year. Generally I try not to repot bonsai too often. Once every two years is considered quite frequent. I prefer to let azalea and other trees go 3 to 10 years between repotting. Obviously if the mix no longer drains freely, it will become important to repot. Sometimes just the aesthetics of changing the pot is the reason to repot. Training the roots, on younger trees in development, the tree should be repotted every 2 or 3 years in order to access the nebari and do the pruning and training of the roots needed to develop a nice nebari. As a rule I like to let trees go at least two, usually 3 years between repotting.

So unless the pot is not draining freely, I would leave it alone at least one full year, possibly 2 years before repotting.

 

[rawlyn]

Suffocating roots, is the main issue we avoid by sifting media. Removing fines makes for better air penetration. The more uniform the particle size, the greater amount of air voids in the media. The wider the range of particles, the less air the mix will hold. For example a mix where all the particles are 0.5 cm to 1.0 cm, will hold much more air than a mix that is 0.2 cm to 1.5 cm. The later mix will settle and compact much more than the mix with a more narrow range of particle sizes.



In general, if the pot drains freely when you water, I would say it is "good enough" that I would not put the azalea through the stress of repotting a second time in the same year. Generally I try not to repot bonsai too often. Once every two years is considered quite frequent. I prefer to let azalea and other trees go 3 to 10 years between repotting. Obviously if the mix no longer drains freely, it will become important to repot. Sometimes just the aesthetics of changing the pot is the reason to repot. Training the roots, on younger trees in development, the tree should be repotted every 2 or 3 years in order to access the nebari and do the pruning and training of the roots needed to develop a nice nebari. As a rule I like to let trees go at least two, usually 3 years between repotting.

So unless the pot is not draining freely, I would leave it alone at least one full year, possibly 2 years before repotting.

Thanks! My hypothetical pots are draining freely, so will refrain from stressing the azaleas they theoretically contain any further for now.

- Mike

 

[Adair M]

No one has mentioned the possibility of winter damage. The OP is in Michigan, and some azalea varieties may not be winter hardy there. The ones that have smaller, narrower, and more pointed leaves are more cold hardy than the varieties that have larger, wider, and more rounded leaves.

It depends on where they originated in Japan. The more northerly ones are more cold tolerant.

They’ve been hybridized, so it may difficult to know for sure.

 

[armetisius]

I have grown azaleas in pots since the 1970's semi-commercially.
[Round here that means "he ain't got a license but his plants are awesome;
so, people come for a glass of tea and 'to visit' on a weekend afternoon"]
They always leave with a trunk full of plants.
I have always used 1/3 sand-1/3 peatmoss-1/3 wood chips. Well almost always.
Until it became too damn expensive (cause everybody wanted to cover their
flower beds with it) I used pine bark instead of the wood chips. Because of this
I use doses of fish emulsion for the first six months to offset the nutrients that
are sapped by the wood chips breaking down. To each 3 gallon batch of mix I
add a quarter cup of Osmocote Plus. This works for me and gives me good aeration
and moisture retention with a good acidic ph which is just about all an azalea needs.
Well it leaves it at just add water.
I lost everything while my father was in his last year. I am in the process of rebuilding
and I will be rebuilding beginning this Spring. I intend to make a few tutorials for the
site as I begin this just to show you some tricks that I think will help.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I lost everything while my father was in his last year. I am in the process of rebuilding
and I will be rebuilding beginning this Spring. I intend to make a few tutorials for the
site as I begin this just to show you some tricks that I think will help.

Those would be simply awesome to see. It would be especially interesting to know the types of cultivars included (Kurume, Satsuki, Holly Springs, Huang, Glenn Dale etc) that you are working with.
Cheers
DSD sends

 

[armetisius]

Those would be simply awesome to see. . . types of cultivars included (Kurume, Satsuki, Holly Springs, Huang, Glenn Dale etc) that you are working with.
Cheers
DSD sends

My order went out to one nursery just yesterday. I like to buy small and grow it on.
I tend to give any and all strains a try. The more closely they are to Rhododendrons
the less likely they are to handling our heat. However, I ordered from each of the strains
you listed in that order alone. I am still looking for a thyme leafed to replace mine.
Most of the small flowered Kurume are readily available here in the Spring so I didn't
bother with them UNLESS they had a novel color/flower form--why grow what everybody
ALREADY has--but some of them will be here this year, bet on it. I will run into one that I
just have to have because of its potential for cutting into a bonsai.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

If you like to start small, and haven't already, try Ronnie at Azalea Hill gardens & nursery. They have lots of small, cool cultivars for sale cheap (don't tell anyone though ). They just listed their fall availability. cheers DSD sends

 

[armetisius]

If you like to start small, and haven't already, try Ronnie at Azalea Hill gardens & nursery. They have lots of small, cool cultivars for sale cheap (don't tell anyone though ). They just listed their fall availability. cheers DSD sends

As they say "the check is in the mail"-- along with the order.
That is actually EXACTLY who I sent an order to yesterday