Hoping for guidance on how to use this lawn-use iron fertilizer on containerized trees!

[SU2]

So I wanted to supplement iron directly (my minerals formula has higher magnesium than iron and didn't stop the chlorosis in a tree, am suspecting it's chloritic because of iron and the magnesium just made it worse since they compete), I came across a great price for 20% iron (and it had 5% sulfur, which is awesome because most of my specimen are bougies and they like acid! Unsure how hefty a dose 5% is though..), unfortunately it's for lawns / in-ground specimen not containerized stuff, I can't convert the broadcast-spreader settings, or 'cups per square-footage of yard' measurements into tsp(tbsp?) for containerized specimen and am hoping for some help, some rough upper/lower thresholds I should start using it between! I'm going to put a lot of it to the chloritic specimen if it shows improvement after 1 dose, but intend to use this on all my bougies (almost/over 50..) since it just seems like a great formula for bougies! This is, of course, in-addition-to a real/proper fertilizer regimen!! Thans for any #'s, I can't wait to apply this stuff, it actually breaks down almost fully in water so am going to be treating the chloritic one in a step-wise fashion, day-by-day, gauging its responsiveness to it!


Have been googling for other companies' products' labels to find a rate and only coming across lawn/in-ground products, only espoma's iron-tone is applicable but I can't find a shot of its instructions just the front of the package :/

 

[milehigh_7]

What I have done is simply divide. It gives you the application rate for 1000 sq feet so if you have a pot that is a 4" square... how much does it get? I would cut whatever amount you come up with by about 20%-30% just to be safe. That said, I like the look of it with calcium and sulfur.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I use this stuff and I love it:



9-9-9 with 10.5% sulfur and 11% iron. Of course we have alkaline soil and very hard water, so a strong acidifier for us may not work for everyone.

I apply at the rate of 1 tablespoon (sprinkled lightly across the surface) of all of my large pond baskets. Two or three tablespoons for my Anderson flats. Less for my small pots, etc. I judge the application rate based on the coverage of the pellets on the soil. The only genus I have found particularly sensitive to it is quince, so I have cut back application rates on the quince. All my trees love it - I am now even using it on my succulents.

 

[Anthony]

As you read around, trees in refinement or "finished" ten to get fed oil seed meal
added as a material that is fermented and finally composts.
Usually 6 N and much less in P or K and also micronutrients.

http://oces.okstate.edu/cleveland/horticulture/N-P-K rates of various organic fertilizers.pdf

This should give you a way to match the NPK you need.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[SU2]

What I have done is simply divide. It gives you the application rate for 1000 sq feet so if you have a pot that is a 4" square... how much does it get? I would cut whatever amount you come up with by about 20%-30% just to be safe. That said, I like the look of it with calcium and sulfur.

I'd thought of that, but with containers not having (essentially) infinite depth, and the risk of conversion errors, I shied away from doing it that way :/ Really hoping for a different iron product's recommended-rate (someone posted a pic ) so I can just start that way and go from there - do you know how long chlorosis takes to go away if it was due to iron deficiency?

"I like the look of it with calcium and sulfur"

Me too I wish it had more sulfur, I'll eventually have sulfur by itself (am slowly building-up my bonsai-gear lol) but for now that's the highest sulfur product I have, aside from price (I got a sack of this iron-fert for next to nothing) the sulfur was a huge selling point for me (since bougies love acidity and they're most of what I've got!)

 

[SU2]

I use this stuff and I love it:

View attachment 171208

9-9-9 with 10.5% sulfur and 11% iron. Of course we have alkaline soil and very hard water, so a strong acidifier for us may not work for everyone.

I apply at the rate of 1 tablespoon (sprinkled lightly across the surface) of all of my large pond baskets. Two or three tablespoons for my Anderson flats. Less for my small pots, etc. I judge the application rate based on the coverage of the pellets on the soil. The only genus I have found particularly sensitive to it is quince, so I have cut back application rates on the quince. All my trees love it - I am now even using it on my succulents.

I'm embarrassed to say that I've never even bothered to check the acidity/alkalinity of my substrates, I have perlite/DE/lava rock all ready-to-go in my mixing-station but make mixes w/o ever considering if any of those are more/less acidic than the others, always figured they're pretty inert..

How large are your pond baskets?

Thanks a ton for posting that, while they're giving a recommended rate based on their entire formula (not just iron) it's a good starting point for me!! And that stuff looks incredible btw, I'd buy that in a heartbeat it's balanced w/ iron/sulfur like it was made for bougies lol

 

[SU2]

As you read around, trees in refinement or "finished" ten to get fed oil seed meal
added as a material that is fermented and finally composts.
Usually 6 N and much less in P or K and also micronutrients.

http://oces.okstate.edu/cleveland/horticulture/N-P-K rates of various organic fertilizers.pdf

This should give you a way to match the NPK you need.
Good Day
Anthony

Thanks for the link, I screenshot that chart actually, but unsure how that'd apply here? Unless I'm missing something, that's just a break-down of what organic fertilizers come in at for npk, I'm trying to figure out how much iron granules (20% iron by weight) to put down, like "1tbsp per 4" pot" or something (and also whether a chloritic plant gets extra, or just regular doses, until it's green again?)

 

[SU2]

View attachment 171208

9-9-9 with 10.5% sulfur and 11% iron. Of course we have alkaline soil and very hard water, so a strong acidifier for us may not work for everyone.

I'm unsure just how alkaline you're talking but the more I read that label the more something is confusing me- wouldn't that be *way* too-much iron if you used that for 'regular' bonsai fertilizing? I guess that I'm thinking that, if I had that and wanted to put down the N levels I like to use, that I'd have iron-toxicity in a heartbeat!

 

[Anthony]

Fertiliser use -

Ground growing ======== NPK
Refinement Boxes ============NPK

With ground growing the NPK is around 12 N

With Refinement Box the NPK is around 6 N

The P and K figures are also low - 3 to 1

The rest Ca, Mg, Fe etc are even lower.
So just look for simple fertilisers and if you use the organic stuff
know that it often forms compost in your soil mix and brings up
the organic factor.
Good Day
Anthony

*Too much P can become toxic as do some of the others.

 

[milehigh_7]

An issue I have spoken of before is that, depending on the mineral, if your pH is too high the mineral is totally unavailable to the plant. I'm not home but there are charts available. With regard to how long till chlorosis clears, it depends on the deficiency causing it. With some, the affected leaves will always be that way.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I'm embarrassed to say that I've never even bothered to check the acidity/alkalinity of my substrates, I have perlite/DE/lava rock all ready-to-go in my mixing-station but make mixes w/o ever considering if any of those are more/less acidic than the others, always figured they're pretty inert..

I have to be careful to note - when I talk about soil I am talking about California dirt like in my yard. I use this on my citrus trees So for my landscape trees and general yard plants, knowing our soil is alkaline is important. It is less important for bonsai, particularly if you are using a lot of washed inorganic material in your soil mix, and sphagnum or peat (which is acidic).

However our water is also alkaline and has a pH of 8.1. Make sure you know the pH of the water you are using to water your bonsai. You should be able to get this from your water utility - they should hopefully provide all customers with an annual water quality statement(?) Otherwise if you are using well water you will want to test it.

Also my large pond baskets are 10" square and about 8" deep.

 

[sorce]

@SU2 .......

Everytime I see one of these posts....

https://www.bonsainut.com/search/10874014/

Damn!

I can't help but feel Franticized.

That is where I get excited due to your Franticity!

You like them new words?

So.......

I feel your dedication.

But I also feel like you are spinning around the entirety of Florida like a Hurricane named Headless Chicken!

I dont blame you....
......we haven't been helping.

You ever watch the Free Mirai Live streams?

I watched one last night and got this reminder that I MUST share with you.

Health = a balance of Water and Oxygen.

That's it!

I feel like you haven't even had the chance to begin yet.

And if you continue to worry about anything other than this Basic Basic...

You may never get a chance to begin!

Fuckin guy comes on from Florida , land of the eternal growing season, land of covery....cuz shit recovers so fast you don't have time to type the RE.....land where roots left out in the air will grow better than if bogged down by pesky soil...land where I want to ship my ficus to enjoy them more.....land where there are so many old retired people that smell like piss, nitrogen is in the atmosphere..
Land where A guy who has to keep hunting new Bougie Yamadori eventually gets eaten by a Burmese Python....

I expect to see some growth!
Some 2 year donies.
Some....peep this shit Bitch ass northerners.....my bougies are Fucking killing it!

Empty your cup!

Bleed the iron.

Dump the citronella.

File your nails with the sawzall blades.

Use sulfer on a match to light a bowl.

Eat caterpillars.

Sniff aphids.

Fuck leaching concrete.....
Leach onto the Basic!

Eat shrooms!

Do Nothing ASAP!

Twist a piece of aluminum and copper together, hold one end, light the other, and see which one burns your hand first!
(It won't hurt, we're still on shrooms!)

Grind off the burnt finger with any grinder not from Harbor Freight!

Stop worrying about what goes under the bench....AND what's on top!

If I was you......

I would put each and every tree I had in one spot where you can water em all inside 5 or 10 minutes....
Do this and this alone twice a day till about June of 2018.....

During this time.....watch the Mirai Streams....watch the Bonsai Art of Japan series...watch everything you can.

But save time to make a Fancy Flashing middle finger .gif....

Cuz you'll need it for those Late June updates.....

.gif....Killin It!

Simple

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

Do Nothing ASAP!

All of that to get this message across.
But it's what needs to be done.
And the 'shrooms might help too.

 

[JudyB]

I use this, it has a nice percentage of sulphur.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0056QA83M/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[bonsaibp]

@SU2 .......

Everytime I see one of these posts....

https://www.bonsainut.com/search/10874014/

Damn!

I can't help but feel Franticized.

That is where I get excited due to your Franticity!

You like them new words?

So.......

I feel your dedication.

But I also feel like you are spinning around the entirety of Florida like a Hurricane named Headless Chicken!

I dont blame you....
......we haven't been helping.

You ever watch the Free Mirai Live streams?

I watched one last night and got this reminder that I MUST share with you.

Health = a balance of Water and Oxygen.

That's it!

I feel like you haven't even had the chance to begin yet.

And if you continue to worry about anything other than this Basic Basic...

You may never get a chance to begin!

Fuckin guy comes on from Florida , land of the eternal growing season, land of covery....cuz shit recovers so fast you don't have time to type the RE.....land where roots left out in the air will grow better than if bogged down by pesky soil...land where I want to ship my ficus to enjoy them more.....land where there are so many old retired people that smell like piss, nitrogen is in the atmosphere..
Land where A guy who has to keep hunting new Bougie Yamadori eventually gets eaten by a Burmese Python....

I expect to see some growth!
Some 2 year donies.
Some....peep this shit Bitch ass northerners.....my bougies are Fucking killing it!

Empty your cup!

Bleed the iron.

Dump the citronella.

File your nails with the sawzall blades.

Use sulfer on a match to light a bowl.

Eat caterpillars.

Sniff aphids.

Fuck leaching concrete.....
Leach onto the Basic!

Eat shrooms!

Do Nothing ASAP!

Twist a piece of aluminum and copper together, hold one end, light the other, and see which one burns your hand first!
(It won't hurt, we're still on shrooms!)

Grind off the burnt finger with any grinder not from Harbor Freight!

Stop worrying about what goes under the bench....AND what's on top!

If I was you......

I would put each and every tree I had in one spot where you can water em all inside 5 or 10 minutes....
Do this and this alone twice a day till about June of 2018.....

During this time.....watch the Mirai Streams....watch the Bonsai Art of Japan series...watch everything you can.

But save time to make a Fancy Flashing middle finger .gif....

Cuz you'll need it for those Late June updates.....

.gif....Killin It!

Simple

Sorce

Roflmao

 

[SU2]

I have to be careful to note - when I talk about soil I am talking about California dirt like in my yard. I use this on my citrus trees So for my landscape trees and general yard plants, knowing our soil is alkaline is important. It is less important for bonsai, particularly if you are using a lot of washed inorganic material in your soil mix, and sphagnum or peat (which is acidic).

However our water is also alkaline and has a pH of 8.1. Make sure you know the pH of the water you are using to water your bonsai. You should be able to get this from your water utility - they should hopefully provide all customers with an annual water quality statement(?) Otherwise if you are using well water you will want to test it.

Also my large pond baskets are 10" square and about 8" deep.

Thanks for the clarification! I have some minor amounts (<5% maximum) of sphagnum in some of my mixes but it's the tan/long-strand type (and thoroughly sieved/rinsed), I think only peat is acidic but if sphagnum is I'd be interested to know (and would use it more, as I've got mostly bougies) But, as you say, washed inorganics - almost every tree I have is in 100% inorganic, I use perlite/DE granules/lava rock, all seived/sifted/rinsed, so imagine there's little pH effects but would still like to find out, hearing you mention your water's pH reminded me that I wasn't able to locate mine via google and neglected to follow-up by getting a pH kit! Gah!! That's a pretty damn big thing to do, if I'm sitting here tinkering w/ minerals but unaware of the pH of anything then I'm not really approaching it right, will order a test kit (did you get yours local or ordered? I'm not even sure where to go, would just default to ebay)

 

[SU2]

@SU2 .......

Everytime I see one of these posts....

https://www.bonsainut.com/search/10874014/

Damn!

I can't help but feel Franticized.

That is where I get excited due to your Franticity!

You like them new words?

So.......

I feel your dedication.

But I also feel like you are spinning around the entirety of Florida like a Hurricane named Headless Chicken!

I dont blame you....
......we haven't been helping.

You ever watch the Free Mirai Live streams?

I watched one last night and got this reminder that I MUST share with you.

Health = a balance of Water and Oxygen.

That's it!

I feel like you haven't even had the chance to begin yet.

And if you continue to worry about anything other than this Basic Basic...

You may never get a chance to begin!

Fuckin guy comes on from Florida , land of the eternal growing season, land of covery....cuz shit recovers so fast you don't have time to type the RE.....land where roots left out in the air will grow better than if bogged down by pesky soil...land where I want to ship my ficus to enjoy them more.....land where there are so many old retired people that smell like piss, nitrogen is in the atmosphere..
Land where A guy who has to keep hunting new Bougie Yamadori eventually gets eaten by a Burmese Python....

I expect to see some growth!
Some 2 year donies.
Some....peep this shit Bitch ass northerners.....my bougies are Fucking killing it!

Empty your cup!

Bleed the iron.

Dump the citronella.

File your nails with the sawzall blades.

Use sulfer on a match to light a bowl.

Eat caterpillars.

Sniff aphids.

Fuck leaching concrete.....
Leach onto the Basic!

Eat shrooms!

Do Nothing ASAP!

Twist a piece of aluminum and copper together, hold one end, light the other, and see which one burns your hand first!
(It won't hurt, we're still on shrooms!)

Grind off the burnt finger with any grinder not from Harbor Freight!

Stop worrying about what goes under the bench....AND what's on top!

If I was you......

I would put each and every tree I had in one spot where you can water em all inside 5 or 10 minutes....
Do this and this alone twice a day till about June of 2018.....

During this time.....watch the Mirai Streams....watch the Bonsai Art of Japan series...watch everything you can.

But save time to make a Fancy Flashing middle finger .gif....

Cuz you'll need it for those Late June updates.....

.gif....Killin It!

Simple

Sorce

ROFL!! No way I'm waiting til June!! Our growing season starts much earlier (well it doesn't seem to end lol, am still getting growth now mid-dec.) but am super excited for where they'll all be by the end of next summer, I mean I got shoots that were close to an inch and that was in months, from freshly collected material...going into this spring w/ established plants and everything I've learned, I'm expecting some impressive trees(vines!) but I can't stay away in the meanwhile, things need wiring/guiding, errant leaves/shoots need removal, bark-mold needs dealing with - hell, if I didn't inspect them daily I'd probably be overrun with aphids in a few weeks!

I can get why it seems I only sweat the small stuff- because I just post about the small stuff! The things I post about are the minutiae I can't figure out myself, I assure you I worry *far* more about what's on the benches than under them though

And lol @ mushrooms, I think their season is over now in my area, it's been some years for me but I can't help mentioning that, even before getting into bonsai (or gardening at all), that trees are my favorite thing ever when in that state of mind, just staring at them... the woods is the place to be!! Hope you had fun if you actually partook

 

[sorce]

ROFL!! No way I'm waiting til June!! Our growing season starts much earlier (well it doesn't seem to end lol, am still getting growth now mid-dec.) but am super excited for where they'll all be by the end of next summer, I mean I got shoots that were close to an inch and that was in months, from freshly collected material...going into this spring w/ established plants and everything I've learned, I'm expecting some impressive trees(vines!) but I can't stay away in the meanwhile, things need wiring/guiding, errant leaves/shoots need removal, bark-mold needs dealing with - hell, if I didn't inspect them daily I'd probably be overrun with aphids in a few weeks!

I can get why it seems I only sweat the small stuff- because I just post about the small stuff! The things I post about are the minutiae I can't figure out myself, I assure you I worry *far* more about what's on the benches than under them though

And lol @ mushrooms, I think their season is over now in my area, it's been some years for me but I can't help mentioning that, even before getting into bonsai (or gardening at all), that trees are my favorite thing ever when in that state of mind, just staring at them... the woods is the place to be!! Hope you had fun if you actually partook

Its easier to see the tree within the tree after you've seen trees bend in no wind and touch the ground!

I'm with you bro!

Get on that .gif!

Sorce

 

[SU2]

Its easier to see the tree within the tree after you've seen trees bend in no wind and touch the ground!

I'm with you bro!

Get on that .gif!

Sorce

What gif are you referring to again?

 

[SU2]

I use this, it has a nice percentage of sulphur.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0056QA83M/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I like that! What are your thoughts on Epsom Salts? I'd always disregarded its use in gardening as a 'folk remedy' but just found out a few days ago that it's 10% magnesium and 13% sulfur, seemed an ideal adjunct to my fertilization regimen!! Only problem is figuring out dosages, I've found recommendations online from 1/8th teaspoon/gallon to 1 tablespoon/gallon, a 32x difference of epsom to be used! I got a bag of it and mixed it (alone, no other ferts as other stuff can easily out-compete Mg+ absorption at the roots) at 1 tablespoon/gallon and watered my 2 very chloritic bougies (had already tried iron and that made no difference so was able to rule that out!), it's only been a couple days so no visible difference yet but I guess we'll see!