How to cut a black pine

WickedNtention

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So I am very new to bonsai I understand how to cut deciduous tree but conifer or pine I’m kind of lost.
mod I need to take it in stages? I have a tree that, if it was straight would be 3 feet tall. I think. It’s about a inch and a half in diameter. But I want to shorten it a lot obviously. I’ll post some pictures if I need to.
the way it lays now I could actually make it a waterfall
 

River's Edge

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So I am very new to bonsai I understand how to cut deciduous tree but conifer or pine I’m kind of lost.
mod I need to take it in stages? I have a tree that, if it was straight would be 3 feet tall. I think. It’s about a inch and a half in diameter. But I want to shorten it a lot obviously. I’ll post some pictures if I need to.
the way it lays now I could actually make it a waterfall
Your question is broad in scope, a picture of the tree and the location you feel you should cut would help. I would suggest you also take the time to indicate your location and climatic zone. This will also assist people in providing better advice.
 

Shibui

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How to prune pines depends what you want to achieve and what stage the tree is up to.
One general guideline: Pines are unlikely to bud from bare wood so always leave some healthy needles or prune to a healthy side shoot.

There's a whole other debate about whether a particular pine is ready for pruning or should be left to grow to increase trunk thickness.

I agree that photos would be desirable to assess where your particular tree is up to and what you want to achieve with it.
Timing is also important and will obviously depend which part of the world you are so please add a location in your profile.
 

WickedNtention

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B9F7DD1A-392C-4FE9-B1A4-74BB07E74E6B.jpeg
 

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WickedNtention

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Ok so if I take it in stages or even once to the first ring and wire the leader straight up will it do like a deciduous and heal over and eventually create taper? And if not I can start seedlings but how do I achieve the taper on the older JBP that I see?
 

Bonsai Nut

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Welcome to the site!

I'm sure someone will chime in with more detailed info, but here is a top-level overview so you understand in general how to approach the subject.

Pines do not back-bud easily, and if you remove all the foliage on any branch, the branch will die rather than push new buds. You may be able to completely defoliate a Japanese maple and see it push new foliage everywhere... but if you do the same with a pine you will instantly kill the tree. So you have to be really careful to maintain inner buds and delicate branches on pines, because once they are gone it is difficult, if not impossible to get them back. The only solution in many cases is to graft new branches - a lengthy and somewhat chancy operation. So you want to maintain delicate branches and ramification, while at the same time allowing aggressive growth so the trunk beefs up and you gain taper. The way you do this is through sacrifice growth. You maintain part of the tree with tight, ramified growth, while letting one or two branches grow unpruned. Once those branches get large enough - several feet at least - and they have done their job of thickening the trunk, you remove them completely. Repeat the process until you get past the raw growth phase of your design and can start working on refinement.
 

WickedNtention

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Welcome to the site!

I'm sure someone will chime in with more detailed info, but here is a top-level overview so you understand in general how to approach the subject.

Pines do not back-bud easily, and if you remove all the foliage on any branch, the branch will die rather than push new buds. You may be able to completely defoliate a Japanese maple and see it push new foliage everywhere... but if you do the same with a pine you will instantly kill the tree. So you have to be really careful to maintain inner buds and delicate branches on pines, because once they are gone it is difficult, if not impossible to get them back. The only solution in many cases is to graft new branches - a lengthy and somewhat chancy operation. So you want to maintain delicate branches and ramification, while at the same time allowing aggressive growth so the trunk beefs up and you gain taper. The way you do this is through sacrifice growth. You maintain part of the tree with tight, ramified growth, while letting one or two branches grow unpruned. Once those branches get large enough - several feet at least - and they have done their job of thickening the trunk, you remove them completely. Repeat the process until you get past the raw growth phase of your design and can start working on refinement.
Ok so how do I keep height on a pine then? Let it grow through the season and then cut back to the height + a couple/few inches? Or???
 

Shibui

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This one looks like some sort of dwarf, Yatsubusa (many buds) cultivar. It will need slightly different maintenance pruning than the straight JBP as branches develop more. It will still respond to pruning as JBP - buds after candles are cut, buds from healthy needles after deeper pruning but will respond to pruning with many more buds than species JBP. More emphasis on reducing the number of buds and shoots.
I build pine taper by trunk chops as you suggest and with sacrifice branches which is also what you currently have.
It would be a big reduction to go straight to the lowest branch. I could do that if I know the tree is completely healthy and being looked after well but otherwise reduction in stages would be safer. Consider leaving some of the existing trunk as a large sacrifice branch for a bit longer while you develop the new leader and branching. Prune sacrifice foliage well away from the keeper so it is not shaded.

Cuts will heal over just like deciduous given enough time and growth above the cut.
Dead wood - jins- can sometimes be used to disguise chops in conifers.

Size on pines is maintained by allowing slow growth then occasionally cutting back to inner shoots to replace the sections that are too long.
Candle removal in late spring/ summer stops long shoots. Second flush is usually shorter and neater but that's a technique for almost developed trees. While trunks and branches are being developed grow and cut back can be used provided you maintain healthy needles to chop to.
 

WickedNtention

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This one looks like some sort of dwarf, Yatsubusa (many buds) cultivar. It will need slightly different maintenance pruning than the straight JBP as branches develop more. It will still respond to pruning as JBP - buds after candles are cut, buds from healthy needles after deeper pruning but will respond to pruning with many more buds than species JBP. More emphasis on reducing the number of buds and shoots.
I build pine taper by trunk chops as you suggest and with sacrifice branches which is also what you currently have.
It would be a big reduction to go straight to the lowest branch. I could do that if I know the tree is completely healthy and being looked after well but otherwise reduction in stages would be safer. Consider leaving some of the existing trunk as a large sacrifice branch for a bit longer while you develop the new leader and branching. Prune sacrifice foliage well away from the keeper so it is not shaded.

Cuts will heal over just like deciduous given enough time and growth above the cut.
Dead wood - jins- can sometimes be used to disguise chops in conifers.

Size on pines is maintained by allowing slow growth then occasionally cutting back to inner shoots to replace the sections that are too long.
Candle removal in late spring/ summer stops long shoots. Second flush is usually shorter and neater but that's a technique for almost developed trees. While trunks and branches are being developed grow and cut back can be used provided you maintain healthy needles to chop to.
What cut paste do it use if any?
 

sorce

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Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce
 

Shibui

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There is no need to use wound dressing to prevent infection. Trees are usually good at that already but according to my trials wound dressing will help cuts close quicker. It does not seem to matter what I use, just as long as the edges are protected from drying out while the callus grows over. Also consider the possibility of disguising cuts by converting some or all to dead wood features.
 
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