Peter Warren's reflection on the Artisans Cup (from facebook)

[garywood]

Mike, not trying to be contentious. Did you or anyone else enter A. elm or jack pine? I'm not discrediting either but having either in big show condition is a rarity. I would personally love to them because I'm a big advocate of American natives.

 

[M. Frary]

Mike, not trying to be contentious. Did you or anyone else enter A. elm or jack pine? I'm not discrediting either but having either in big show condition is a rarity. I would personally love to them because I'm a big advocate of American natives.

I threw them in the post because I have those. But there are other native trees like bald cypress, A. hornbeam. and others. But American bonsai shouldn't be just about trees native to America.
I was just out there looking at my trees in development and thinking about world class and run of the mill trees. And what perceptions about American bonsai are or should be or may be.
And then it occurred why do we have to say American bonsai at all. Because America has a different way of doing bonsai? Or American trees are different than trees from other parts of the world? Why not say bonsai in America instead? Regardless of the material?
And thank you for the info about American elm being developed for a big show. I truly didn't know. As for the jack pine I know they are somewhat rare.

 

[sorce]

You know what.....

Since you brought it up again.......

I'm with you. But of Deciduous. ...

I didn't see any really good deciduous bonsai at the Show here.

Some ok ones, but mostly representations of haste, and you can almost see in the tree, where people tried to "get better" but didn't cut all the old BS off and start over.

Other than the BVF Hawthorne....
(dispatch invisibility cloaked, ham radio operated, Bonsai stealing drones)

When I imagine a Great Deciduous tree, usually it belongs to Walter Pall.

(More names in my head)

And in a few more years......
Judy's Deciduous trees too!

We simply haven't gotten over our American Haste. Curse!

I believe we are getting there.

Of these monster conifers......

Of which, I agree, do not tell OUR story.

When climate changes, because that's what earth does, and they need our water, me and Leo got the west side covered, Kennedy, our OHIO folks, Grimmy, to the east, and you in there....

What then? I ain't giving it up!

Great Lakes Side Beeeeoches!

Sorce

 

[Andrew Robson]

The Artisans Cup represents American bonsai?
No,it represented maybe Portland bonsai. American Northwest bonsai? Whatever,all it did was to highlight a small fraction of bonsai in America. Probably less than 1% of what is really American bonsai. The winning trees were collected in the northwest,styled people from the northwest and the show was put on by people from the northwest.
Now it's going on a world tour,just like a rock band. Will it cram big collected junipers down the throats of people around the world saying these are the trees Americans are doing? Or will it have an honest representation of what bonsai in America really is? Trees like Smokes,Bill Valvanis,Vance Wood,Arthur Joura,Jerry Meseilik,Brian Van Fleet and other great bonsai artists from around the country?
I for one think the Artisans Cup did a poor job and will continue to do a poor job of representing American bonsai.
It did a great job of highlighting the work of very few artists in American bonsai.
Look at it this way. If there were 2 shows in a city one being the collected junipers from the artisans cup and another across the street with trees from the artists listed above and I could only go to one,I wouldn't be looking at the big junipers.
I would rather see a show representing what bonsai in America truly is. Trees that over 99% of American bonsai artists are doing.

Mike, Bill Valavanis had two trees in the show. So did a lot of people in California who don't live in the Pacific Northwest. Did the other people you named submit trees? Or do they even have trees that could compete with some of the trees in the cup?

Also, there were several non American species in the show. Besides Bill having his Japanese maples, Jim Gremmel had one of his amazing home grown shimpakus. Jonas has his excellent Korean Hornbeam. There was a stunning exposed root Japanese white pine in the show. Several nice black pines too. The Pacific Museum had a stellar Japanese Beech.

I too wished that more American species were represented, but frankly the material from other parts of the country was just not at the same level or wasn't submitted. There should have been more American larch in the show. I know they are out there, they probably just weren't submitted. Hagedorn's red maple could have been in the show, but I think he preferred his vine maple.

Also a note about deciduous verses conifers, you can collect a conifer with a stellar trunk and get it looking stellar in a short amount of time with proper work. It takes far longer to develop decidious material. Hagedorn's red maple, the best red maple bonsai I know, took 40 years to develop. Several of the big Artisans cup conifers were sitting on a mountain 5 years ago. There wasn't good decidious material because it barely exists in this country. Bill Valavanis is an exception with his amazing Japanese maples, which took him 30+ years to grow. This is why we should all be growing out decidious material for the next generation of American bonsai enthusiasts.

 

[Dav4]

Brian Van Fleet did have one submission to the cup that was rejected. I do suspect that this one-http://bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/collected-hawthorn-history.5761/- would have made the cut if it had been in the right place in it's cycle of care. It was at the last National Exhibition in Rochester and, I believe, is getting tweaked at the moment. This is the quintessential American deciduous bonsai...an American native, collected and styled by an American....in America.

 

[sorce]

Brian Van Fleet did have one submission to the cup that was rejected. I do suspect that this one-http://bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/collected-hawthorn-history.5761/- would have made the cut if it had been in the right place in it's cycle of care. It was at the last National Exhibition in Rochester and, I believe, is getting tweaked at the moment. This is the quintessential American deciduous bonsai...an American native, collected and styled by an American....in America.

Iowa to Bama at that!

Sorce

 

[markyscott]

...There wasn't good decidious material because it barely exists in this country...

This is exactly right. It takes years of dedicated and patient effort and to develop a refined deciduous tree and there are not many in America. Our best would look mediocre in Japan.

I work hard on my broadleaf trees. I wire new growth, select branches, and remove leaves 2-4 times during the growing season. On my more developed trees, it takes about 8 hours each time I do this. In the winter I cut back. Next spring, I start again. In a couple of decades I hope to have something that looks pretty good.

In Japan, Japanese maples are grown out in tubs for decades - that's how they get those smoothly tapering trunks with no pruning scars.

https://dupuich.smugmug.com/Bonsai/Excursions/Ebihara/i-hckPBzd/A

In America, what we have are world class yamadori. That's why they were at the America's Cup.

Scott

 

[JudyB]

(More names in my head)

Ahem, how bout Bill V?, and Sergio C., and Doug P, and lots of others. They are out there....

 

[M. Frary]

Ok.
Now if big collected junipers are representative of bonsai in America (I now refuse to say American bonsai, ease bonsai is bonsai, no matter where it comes from),what tree is representative of bonsai in Europe? How about bonsai in Africa? Or South Ametica?
If there is an international bonsai shootout will there be only 7 trees? One representing each continent? See what I'm getting at? And now here is the kicker. Would the tree from America be able to hold up to Europe's best. Or Asia's best? Ever?
What's happening is we are being pigeonholed into believing that a few trees from out west are representative of bonsai in America. Let's hope not.

 

[markyscott]

Ok.
Now if big collected junipers are representative of bonsai in America (I now refuse to say American bonsai, ease bonsai is bonsai, no matter where it comes from),what tree is representative of bonsai in Europe? How about bonsai in Africa? Or South Ametica?
If there is an international bonsai shootout will there be only 7 trees? One representing each continent? See what I'm getting at? And now here is the kicker. Would the tree from America be able to hold up to Europe's best. Or Asia's best? Ever?
What's happening is we are being pigeonholed into believing that a few trees from out west are representative of bonsai in America. Let's hope not.

I didn't say that collected yamadori is all we would ever have that was great. It's what we have now that's great and it will take some dedicated people with skill and patience to bring American broadleaf trees to the same level. Maybe you're one of them. If you'd like to broaden the landscape of world class bonsai in America to include broadleaf trees from the Midwest, make a great one. I'd certainly pay to see it.

Scott

 

[sorce]

Ahem, how bout Bill V?, and Sergio C., and Doug P, and lots of others. They are out there....

Yes those we're the ones!

Sorce

 

[Andrew Robson]

Ahem, how bout Bill V?, and Sergio C., and Doug P, and lots of others. They are out there....

Bill Valavanis and Doug Paul both had trees in the Artisans Cup