Zuisho White Pine

Brian Van Fleet

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David,
New Thread...Glad your Zuisho is looking good. Mine is growing pretty well this year, candles were about 4"-5" long and are fully open now. A small, second flush is pushing. Somehow, it seems that last year I had less foliage growth, but the trunk about doubled in thickness. This year, more foliage, but the trunk hasn't moved yet. Our summers will see temps in the 100s; the last few years we've had 10-12 days of that per summer.

Mine is still in full sun, but when it slows down, I'll move it to morning sun/afternoon shade.

Still isn't much to look at, but one Bonsai Today article implies that the ugly ducklings really become the swans as they age...I'm counting on it!

My plan is to start identifying some of the lower branches that will become the final tree (lowest branch is #1, next branch is a continuation of the trunk line, etc.). Everything else is sacrifice branches that I can remove a little at a time; which will make good scions or cuttings, all the while still thickening the trunk.
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An update on my Zuisho! It's looking good, and I think that I'm going to use it as a stock plant, because I just do not see any viable options in the tree unless I cut most of it off, which I don't want to do.

Brian, thank you so much for the info. I have it situated where my Japanese Maples are and it's looking good. Just out of curiosity, how high do your summer temperatures get? My Zuisho did not push much growth this year, but I think that's just because it was shipped, root pruned, and otherwise messed with this year. I anticipate that it'll grow much more next year.

Regards,
David
 

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mapleman77

Mame
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That tree is Brian's. And btw I would KILL to have that tree....it looks amazing compared to mine. Mine is scrawny compared to yours...probably because mine is a cutting and yours is grafted onto Japanese Black Pine rootstock. In the future, I think that I might do what Brent does (grafting really really low) simply because it's easier and you seem to have better growth much more quickly.

Brian, your tree looks amazing. I agree with your pruning/training; you should start training the branches that you want to use as final branches now so you will have lower branches. I think that it will make a nice slanting style pine. Is that what you had in mind for this prebonsai?

I'll continue to update on my pine as well. I have 2 JBP seedlings that I started 3 years ago (and can't believe that they lived through horrible conditions) and am planning to graft them with the 'Zuisho' cultivar. Hopefully I'll have success!!!

Keep us posted Brian. That will be one killer tree in a few years when it has some more trunkage and years on it. It looks extremely healthy and happy. It looks like you have really been taking care of it. That tree should make anyone proud.

David
 
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Brian Van Fleet

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Thanks, you're too kind!~it is a fun tree to watch grow and develop. This one is grafted really low, right at the soil level from once side, and within .5" of the soil level on the other.

Here are 3 photos; one from fall '06 when I got it (from Brent as a 2 year-old graft), another from '07 in the spring, and the last from '08 in the late spring. I'm sure you find the progress encouraging...kind of surprised me to look back. While it's no trident maple, it does grow! What I'd be really curious to see is a post of one that was grafted about 10 years ago to see where they go from here.

I haven't cut anything on this yet, and probably won't for a while, but looking at the graft, I do have a definite "front" identified.
 

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mapleman77

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Hi Brian!

I really, REALLY like the progression--you can really see how much it has grown! It looks very healthy and I hope that you continue to enjoy it.

Mine is also looking healthy, but it is not as big. I'll post a picture when I remember to take one but the needles look very dark and feel very firm. I'm looking forward to watching this tree and any others that I propagate from it develop.

David
 
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greerhw

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Brian, what style do have planned for this tree ?

Harry
 

mapleman77

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Brian, after the ideas posted in the "heat damage to JWP" thread, I think that a better question as to why your pine survives in zone 7 is how cold does it get and how long does it stay that way?

Thanks again,
David
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Harry: I don't really know yet what style it will be; so far I'm just growing it. I do know that I tend to end up with trees in the 25"-27" tall range and am drawn to Zuishos with the long first branch. I don't think I'll end up bending the trunk with wire, and most of what is growing will probably be considered sacrifice branches. I'd guess I'll give it another 5 years or so before I really do any training on it. Do you see something in it now...? It's still pretty small at 15-16" tall and less than a 1" trunk.

David: winters in Birmingham get cold. I read the number of hours below 40 required for JWP and it ends up to be about 40 days. We get that easily here. Late December through early March are predictably cool, even though we get those "teaser" weeks in the 70s.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Oh, and it does freeze solid from time to time. The trees get mulched in under the benches with pine straw, but this one and a few other hardy trees don't get mulched in as much. Here is the tree shortly after one of those "teaser" weeks in the 70s back in March.
 

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mapleman77

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Hey Brian,

Thanks for the updates and cold info. At this point I have no idea whether I'll be able to keep mine alive but I have a sneaking suspicion that I'll figure out some way to, even if it means buying a small cold greenhouse! ;)

Random question, do you get snow usually every year? Because even waaaaaaay down here we got a good 5-6 inches of it last year....it hasn't snowed like that in 20 years, I hear. :D

I think that your Zuisho will be a wonderful tree. I'd continue to grow the leader for girth and start working on lower branches right now, by candling them and keeping them under control. I don't know if my vote counts but I see a nice informal upright here after you chop and train the lower branches. Only time will tell. :)

Thanks again for your help! Keep us updated on this tree--I'm sure many people will want to see it.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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I'll definitely post updates. I think you're right about training the lower part to be the finished tree...the rest (unfortunately) is sacrifice...or more likely,propagation material!!!

Snow: the last couple years we've had some in March, but it's not the norm. Cold is, but snow is usually a surprise. How did your zuisho grow this year? Haven't seen a post yet since shortly after you got it.
 

mapleman77

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Hey Brian,

I'll take a picture tomorrow or Monday. It put out rather small shoots this year but the new growth looks very healthy. The needles are very short as well, probably a cm or less. I've started a fertilizing regimen wherein I'm fertilizing every two weeks with miraclegro and it's looking great as a result.

I'll try to get that picture asap to you; I took some closeups the other day and I'll post those as well!

I'm glad that we agree on the near future of your tree. I guess that great minds think alike... ;)
 

mapleman77

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Brian--
Here are some pictures of my tree. As stated earlier, it put out rather small shoots but the buds for next year are already beginning to grow and I noticed that they are significantly bigger than they were 2 weeks ago!

Honestly, as far as the extra growth of your tree, I'd try to do both a combination of cuttings and grafts. Grafts because you can then have a mother plant and they will be almost guaranteed to live if you can get them to take, and cuttings because, well, it's possible with this tree! ;) But that's just my $.02 in this matter. :D

Talk to you soon--
 

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Klytus

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I need a better eye to fault white pines,i have yet to see one that does not appeal.

Last Saturday i visited a Bonsai Show in Marlow England and they had none on display,far worse than finding a figurine infestation!

I had to make do enjoying a Larch.
 

mapleman77

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Hi Klytus,

welcome to the forum! Hope that you enjoy it...

Yeah, I have a very similar problem with JWP, must be inherent with the species. ;)
 

shohin kid

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david,
Are you styling that tree this winter? You better put some wire on that thing while you still can.
 

mapleman77

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Hey Shohin Kid,

No, I debated what I was going to do with this tree for a couple of months, and then resigned myself to the fact that I couldn't really see a 'tree' in this particular pine. i'm going to use it as a stock plant so I can take cuttings or graft off of it so I can design my own trees from day 1. :(

Can you see a good design in this one? Because I'm stalemated... :eek:
 

Klytus

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I see two distinct possibilities emerging,the unsuccessful possibility becomes Jin.

I see an acute planting angle with one branch becoming a low foliage pad and the other meandering off somewhere else.

I see exposed roots emerging in that last possibility.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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From a previous post:

Here are 3 photos; one from fall '06 when I got it (from Brent as a 2 year-old graft), another from '07 in the spring, and the last from '08 in the late spring. I'm sure you find the progress encouraging...kind of surprised me to look back.
Now, an update from today, here is the Zuisho after this, it's 7th, growing season. At Brent's suggestion, I decided to straighten it up by using a bar. I'll grow it as an upright, and eventually replace the apex with a trunk chop to add some taper, but it will be a while before that happens.

I'd say it's nearly doubled in size each year, but if you look back at the first 3 photos in the earlier posts, it's pretty clear that it takes a LONG time to grow out a tree in a pot from a little graft.

The close-up shows the graft union, where the scar from the stock is nearly closed.
 

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