A couple projects for Smoke...

@Smoke

As stated earlier I defoliated, sprayed the tree down good, and then seven days later reapplied as the new buds were breaking and the leaves were coming out. Not much improvement, and now a few are yellow and splotchy. I believe jt would be best to again remove these leaves too and spray, but I fear this tree is exceptionally weak after all this and so I’m not sure what the best course of action would be. I really thought the tips were just burned from the sun but these odd yellow leaves really must be a fungus. This is what happens when we get three weeks of continuous rain...
Just keep spraying and removing damaged leaves. You'll get thru this. The big piece of advice for all you maple keepers with rain and moisture problems is to keep up the spraying thru the winter when there are no leaves. People think the fungus is manifest in the leaves but its in the plant and just shows the symptoms thru the leaves. The anti fungal measures rid the plant of the issues and eventually thru diligent control the leaves will clear up.
 
@Smoke do you ever use propiconizole? I like it because it is a systemic. At the very bottom of this link they mention propiconizole and mancazeb. Both products im familiar with, but not on trees.
 
@Smoke do you ever use propiconizole? I like it because it is a systemic. At the very bottom of this link they mention propiconizole and mancazeb. Both products im familiar with, but not on trees.
I have used systemics in the past and think they have their place but I find them slow to treat. if a person has fungus free plants than a systemic regimen may be an answer. If one develops fungus due to moist conditions then foliar sprays work faster since they allow chemicals to treat the infected tissue close to the part of the plant showing symptoms. I think regular treatment is the best answer and I think either with regular use is the way to go. keep in mind that switching products thru the season is smart also since plant pathogens build resistance to treatment quickly. Having several fungicides at ones disposal is smart and would keep the plant disease free.

Keep in mind that simple solutions like regular treatment with hydrogen peroxide can also control fungus and is not really poisonous to humans. There are many dangers with fungicides and humans.
 
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I have used systemics in the past and think they have their place but I find them slow to treat. if a person has fungus free plants than a systemic regimen may be an answer. If one develops fungus due to moist conditions then foliar sprays work faster since they allow chemicals to treat the infected tissue close to the part of the plant showing symptoms. I think regular treatment is the best answer and I think either with regular use is the way to go. keep in mind that switching products thru the season is smart also since plant pathogens build resistance to treatment quickly. Having several fungicides at ones disposal is smart and would keep the plant disease free.

Keep in mind that simple solutions like regular treatment with hydrogen peroxide can also control fungus and is not really poisonous to humans. There are many dangers with fungicides and humans.
Thats interesting, that you view systemics as a preventative. Where i am familiar, turf farming, i use protectants as a preventitive, and systemics as a curative. Well, to be precise i use them both as a preventative. When i see disease i spray, and expect it to protect the healthy plants and keep the disease from spreading. Then the healthy grass can take over the diseased areas. Interesting. Thank you for your thoughts.
 
Thats interesting, that you view systemics as a preventative. Where i am familiar, turf farming, i use protectants as a preventitive, and systemics as a curative. Well, to be precise i use them both as a preventative. When i see disease i spray, and expect it to protect the healthy plants and keep the disease from spreading. Then the healthy grass can take over the diseased areas. Interesting. Thank you for your thoughts.
I have many farmer friends here in the central valley of California where a majority of the food for the world is grown. I have friends that row farm and have used some of their fungicides on their bonsai and burned leaves up. I think most of the fungicides used for home use like Bayer and Daconil are so mild they need a long time of regular use to be effective. I use them all year round along with lime sulpher in the winter which is the best cause it sets the tree up for the whole year.
 
I remember as a kid my dad spraying the fruit trees we had in the back yard. Stone fruit trees and he sprayed them every winter with the (rotten egg spray) but we had great fruit!! Without the proper fungicides the fruit will not stay on the tree long enough for it to get sweet. Just when it gets to the point of ripeness it starts falling off the tree. It never "sets".

People don't use dormant disease control much anymore. I have only heard @Brian Van Fleet use it on his trees.
 
And even more rain. I planned on spraying them again today but like I said rain. I’d put them in the greenhouse but the tomatoes in there too have fungus/blight? So I doubt that would help. Just got to wait it out I suppose....
 

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All year long, baby. Was hitting everything with Mancozeb as you were typing this. @markyscott does this year-round too.
May I ask how you go about applying it? And is this the only one you use? You’ve probably already posted about it somewhere I bet.

I definitely need to start using sulfur in the winter from now on...
 
May I ask how you go about applying it? And is this the only one you use? You’ve probably already posted about it somewhere I bet.

I definitely need to start using sulfur in the winter from now on...
Scott explains it better in the links below, and it’s what I do. LS at leaf-fall, Dormant oil in the winter, LS just at bud-break, and a rotation of Mancozeb, Copper, and Daconil in the growing season, though I’m concerned Daconil stunts growth.
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/preventative-dormant-spraying.31787/#post-525842
https://www.facebook.com/notes/houston-bonsai-society/dormant-spraying/1335155469848406/
 
Scott explains it better in the links below, and it’s what I do. LS at leaf-fall, Dormant oil in the winter, LS just at bud-break, and a rotation of Mancozeb, Copper, and Daconil in the growing season, though I’m concerned Daconil stunts growth.
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/preventative-dormant-spraying.31787/#post-525842
https://www.facebook.com/notes/houston-bonsai-society/dormant-spraying/1335155469848406/

Interesting Brian. What makes you say this? daconil has been my main go to for fungus prevention. I had bad leaf curl last year on some J. Maples. It was affecting even giant trees in the landscape as well. I failed to do anything after leaf drop. Did the LS before bud break and have sprayed proactively due to the very wet past two months. No signs of fungus but growth is stalled. It’s like they leafed out but No shoot extension on two or three J. Maples that otherwise seem healthy in the ground and in pots. I was starting to think it could be chemical.

I have copper and suppose I should rotate better.
 
Interesting Brian. What makes you say this? daconil has been my main go to for fungus prevention. I had bad leaf curl last year on some J. Maples. It was affecting even giant trees in the landscape as well. I failed to do anything after leaf drop. Did the LS before bud break and have sprayed proactively due to the very wet past two months. No signs of fungus but growth is stalled. It’s like they leafed out but No shoot extension on two or three J. Maples that otherwise seem healthy in the ground and in pots. I was starting to think it could be chemical.

I have copper and suppose I should rotate better.
Because the only thing that I did differently this spring (aside from the weather was warm in March and cold in April) was hit everything pretty heavy with Daconil around mid-April. And from that point, everything stopped growing, except the JBP.
For example, here was my Ume in 5/17 and 5/18. No pruning on either one.
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This year, the ume had grown 3-4 nodes when I sprayed it, and it hasn’t grown any more this year.

This J Maple is harder to show in photos, but the density from last May to this June is less; no pruning in either shot:
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It’s leaves tend to to grow to 2-3” once they form. This year, they stalled out at the size they were when I sprayed it (no doubt this has a place in Bonsai!). They should be green by now, but they are still bronze. Mid-June 2017, notice the difference, they were much greener by this time last year:
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The tridents stopped too. It was very odd, and maybe Daconil had nothing to do with it, but I can’t explain it any other way.
 
Interesting stuff. I’m def gonna think about picking something else for fungicide protection from here on out to see if anything changes.
 
Interesting stuff. I’m def gonna think about picking something else for fungicide protection from here on out to see if anything changes.
Lots of the pros are using Mancozeb. I started using it late last year and the results have been good. Still a little CA rust on a C. Quince and hawthorn but not on RMJ. Needle cast is improving, so is powdery mildew on crape myrtles. Both Daconil and Mancozeb are non-systemic, and both will leave a residue on leaves and pots. Not tough to clean off.
 
Round #2 is complete; this time I used @0soyoung ’s peroxide treatment. I was out of Daconil anyway. I did notice when spraying a couple of the maples that there was still quite a bit of residual daconil on the trunks. Was the peroxide supposed to foam/bubble a little on contact with the tree?

I had to remove most of the leaves again. Which concerns me, this tree is likely very weak now, although I attribute some of that to the Groundlayer which led to the fungus and so here we are with an exceptionally weakened tree.


Considering putting it in light shade.
 

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I must say I’m impressed with the effectiveness of peroxide so far. I honestly did not expect at the concentration recommend that it would work so well. I THINK it’s been working; the main large maple is still sending out affected leaves but with each treatment they get less and less common. Same with some kotohime cuttings I started.

I again -THINK- that it foams on contact with infected areas. Here is an example with the cuttings and trident forest from earlier in the thread. I may have lost one of the trees and definitely lost branches on the rest over the winter. After spraying the peroxide, the branch crotches and infected tissue foams. Maybe it’s just a placebo affect but It’s been working.
 

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So the fungus is slowly getting better and better in the larger trident, but of course now it’s deficient in something. What would you recommend @Smoke ? I’ve read that Epsom salt in water would help, if mag is the problem, or alternatively the soils ph is off. I’m starting to think it’s not acidic enough because of all the problems I’m getting this year. It’s BonsaiJacks inorganic mix. Maybe @0soyoung can help too?
 

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So the fungus is slowly getting better and better in the larger trident, but of course now it’s deficient in something. What would you recommend @Smoke ? I’ve read that Epsom salt in water would help, if mag is the problem, or alternatively the soils ph is off. I’m starting to think it’s not acidic enough because of all the problems I’m getting this year. It’s BonsaiJacks inorganic mix. Maybe @0soyoung can help too?

JoeR, @Bananaman is now the artist formerly known as Smoke. He is also available for gigs, birthdays, bar mitzvahs and 80's cartoon cameos.

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