Artisans Cup of Portland

[misfit11]

I guess I'm just disappointed that an official update or news release has not been made publicly by now. Many vendors, interested participants and visitors have expressed interest in attending and all they have so far are "rumors" to base their attendance. not cool.

Too true. The official site STILL says the original show date:
http://www.artisanscupofportland.com/

Who knows how long this postponement has been in effect. A few days? A few weeks? Months? It's pretty lame when people have to learn of these changes from an obscure internet bonsai forum via "rumor".

It seems that some folks on here have contact with Ryan and/or Michael Hagedorn. Maybe someone could urge them to get the official word out publicly so no one makes plans (i.e. books a flight, hotel, rents a car, etc.) that can't be undone without unnecessary expense. I'm sure neither Ryan or Michael will be reimbursing anyone for their wasted $$$.

Cory

 

[elliott]

Cup alternative

Im sure they are just being pro's and putting together a proper press release. we will probably see something official any moment. a friend of mine heard rumors last week, so it probably not a last second thing.
If you know Ryan, you know he is stretched very thin, plus he just got married recently. I don't know any bonsai person that gets into a relationship, where their bonsai trajectory did not change.
Lets support and understand. when it happens, it will be even greater!
For those of you who have planned on entering a tree or attending the cup, why don't you switch to the GSBF convention in Burbank, Ca Holloween weekend? It's 4 days of bonsai activities, not just a display. If you were grooming a tree for Artisan's, you can contact Bonsai Nate or me about possibly putting it in the Judged or non judged display. It's 3 wekends after what Artisan's was scheduled for. You can still attend and or submit your tree for the cup when it happens.
I was looking forward to the cup also and I know the convention is not the same, but you will be glad you went!

 

[BigDave]

why don't you switch to the GSBF convention in Burbank, Ca Holloween weekend?

Big E,

Genius !

...Big D

 

[bonsaibp]

This was just on the Artistians Cup Facebook page.
[h=5]Artisans Cup of Portland Bonsai Exhibition
[/h][h=5]Hello Everyone,

As Ryan announced in April, the Artisans Cup has been postponed until September 2015. It was a really tough decision, we know how much many of you were looking forward to coming to Portland this fall, but Ryan and I are in total agreement this was the best thing to do. We'll be in a much better position to put on a very special, unique exhibition with more time. And we’ll have more information for you soon. Thanks to all of you who have expressed their support for the Cup in the past, and I particularly wish to thank those who have recently written words of understanding. It has been much appreciated.

Michael Hagedorn
[/h]

 

[Vance Wood]

It's nice to see those who are responsible come forward with a bit of information. However, I would like to know how and why this happened in the first place?

 

[reddog]

It's nice to see those who are responsible come forward with a bit of information. However, I would like to know how and why this happened in the first place?

My guess is money. This project probably kept growing in scope but so did the upfront investment. Wouldn't be surprised if they scale it down to better manage the financial side of the event. Just my two cents worth.

 

[buddhamonk]

If I had to guess it might also be an issue of manpower. When the BSOP organizes any of the exhibition at PNBCA or at the portland japanese garden, it takes an army.

Mike and Ryan never sought the help of the local members through the BSOP which tells me they don't have an army to help them out.

 

[elliott]

official reason for the cancellation of the Artisans cup.

Michael Hagedorn has a full explanation on his blog that just posted written by Ryan. Basicly, it's a money thing. They need backing from business sources to pull it off properly, and that's a tuff rabbit to pull out of your hat in this economy.
Waiting a couple of years will allow them to put on a better show that I'm sure will be a milestone in American Bonsai history. I'm sure there will be even more awesome trees entered with bigger prize money.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

From Michael and Ryan...
http://crataegus.com/2013/05/01/artisans-cup-postponed-until-september-2015/

Its always good to have something to look forward to.

 

[mcpesq817]

I'm sure it's a lot of work to put together, particularly on the financing side in this economy. I applaud their decision to do it the right way, rather than do it right away. I wish them luck, as it sounds like it will be a fantastic show.

 

[Darth Tanuki]

Too true. The official site STILL says the original show date:
http://www.artisanscupofportland.com/

Who knows how long this postponement has been in effect. A few days? A few weeks? Months? It's pretty lame when people have to learn of these changes from an obscure internet bonsai forum via "rumor".

It seems that some folks on here have contact with Ryan and/or Michael Hagedorn. Maybe someone could urge them to get the official word out publicly so no one makes plans (i.e. books a flight, hotel, rents a car, etc.) that can't be undone without unnecessary expense. I'm sure neither Ryan or Michael will be reimbursing anyone for their wasted $$$.

Cory

The peasants grow restless. All they need is a good stoning to allay their disappointment.

 

[Mark]

Change focus

A National Exhibition is a huge undertaking and I think Bill Valavanis has made it it look easy.
Its not, but when things are well organized and go smoothly you might think so.

What to do now...

INTERNATIONAL Bonsai Colloquiem in June 2013- Exhibit of some of the Bonsai Bill has developed over the last 50 years! Studing the trees at this level of development and refinement can be very enjoyable and a great learning opportunity. Also Great teachers and Artists will be sharing in a unique format. Had plans for Portland, come to Rochester instead.
NEW Book release at this event also and it is amazing !!!

also

September 2014 4th US National Bonsai Exhibition. Continue to work preparing your Bonsai for the next National show. It takes more than lip service to continue to raise the level of Bonsai in the USA. It is important that all that say they care connect that with action. Support the US National Exhibition next year and the Artisans Cup in 2015!

Mark

 

[grouper52]

I don't mean to raise a ruckus my first week back, but does anyone question thie whole premise of this endeavor?

"The Artisans Cup of Portland Bonsai Exhibition is the showcase of America's new movement to raise aesthetic appreciation and craftsmanship in the art of bonsai. Created and conceptualized by bonsai professionals Ryan Neil and Michael Hagedorn, the show’s venue in the renowned Portland Art Museum catapults bonsai into the world of fine art. Bonsai artists and aficionados from around the country will be joining us in Portland October 4th-6th, 2013 to contribute to and celebrate bonsai at its finest. Come take part and help reforge, refine, and reinvent bonsai in a manner the West has yet to see. Join us for the Artisans Cup!"

Jury (and bulk of judges): Both Japanese-trained "bonsai professionals," for "the showcase of America's new movement . . . [to] reinvent bonsai in a manner the West has yet to see."

Display requirements: Traditional Japanese display formula - for "America's new movement. . . . "

Substantial fees charged for accepted entries . . .

Huge cash prizes for "winners." ("Exhibition," vs competition?)

Before I knew about this thing, a fellow from my local club was over looking at my trees, and suggested I enter one or two. I laughed, but I went to check out the website. My reaction, besides further laughing, was, "I don't think so."

Down at Elandan the other weekend, Dan was working on that huge Japanese Black pine I featured in my preface story in Gnarly Branches. He brought up this Artisan's Cup as we were sitting together admiring the raw, exciting magnificence of the pine. He pointed out that such raw magnificence was the antithesis of the Artisan's Cup, and that he would likely not bother to enter - both because of the basic tenor of the thing, and because he did not agree with the idea of making bonsai exhibition into a competition with huge cash prizes. I have since heard that he did decide not to enter, even before he found out it was cancelled.

I delivered a baudy description of the grandiosity emanating from the northern Oregon scene in an old thread on this forum once, [a thread that I think was ultimately closed, and apparently deleted, for incredibly crude comments to a female poster here.] It strikes me that the announcement, and subsequent need to cancel this thing, perhaps speaks to that hubristic need to "fundamentally transform" American bonsai, such as it is.

I'm not wishing, perhaps, to rekindle the strident "Art?" Wars that have rocked this forum and others in days of old, but just curious to know if anyone else has thoughts about all this.

 

[Crataegus]

From Michael Hagedorn about the Artisans Cup Postponement

Hello All,

I'm new here, I just signed up to provide a link to our announcement on May 1 that the Artisans Cup has been postponed to September 2015. It's been posted in several places including the Cup blog and Cup Facebook page, and was a letter of explaination from Ryan. I have it on my blog: http://crataegus.com/

Please feel free to repost or reblog this, we'd appreciate that-

My email is crataegus001@yahoo.com, cell 503-277-8072, I'll be happy to answer any questions-

Michael

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

Apparently on page 35 of the latest BF Ryan is quoted as saying, "A professional bonsai community seems essential, because our bonsai knowledge is so limited in the West".

That quote speaks volumes to me. It's not only wrong, it's bordering on - if not completely - insulting. It discounts the considerable accumulated bonsai knowledge and enthusiasm of the west. I've been in back yards in the PNW, OR, and CA that are jaw dropping. I've worked on trees of great value and beauty... so I take exception to that comment.

Sometimes people fail to take into consideration the shear vastness of the US. And for purposes of my comments here, I'll restrict the West to the US... since I can't even conceive of the idea that he'd dream of insulting Europe. We have a vibrant and ever growing community of bonsai enthusiasts, artists, and professionals. It just happens to be spread over an area that could swallow Japan up 20 fold.

I do believe that a professional community would be awesome... but in true American style, it can't be solely based on Japanese teachings. Nor is Japanese teaching required to elevate our expression of the art. An epicanthic fold does not a perfect bonsai make.

So... honestly this may boil down to messaging, and understanding your audience. If one is trying to have an American competition, without the buy in of the community, it won't work. If Ryan is so disconnected from the people who have spent lifetimes nurturing this art here, that he can't value their contributions - or appreciate their work - then it's not going to work. If he spends the next two years reaching out to area and national clubs, teachers and enthusiasts in an authentic and collaborative way... then the success of the show could be epic.... but in creating that collaboration and community, it may not come off as very Japanese at all. Which is ok with me. I'm not Japanese.

Warmly,

Victrinia

 

[nip]

I don't mean to raise a ruckus my first week back, but does anyone question thie whole premise of this endeavor?.

I believe the exuberance displayed in their mission statement was simply used to create a buzz in the bonsai world. A refreshing spark to promote the "new movement to raise aesthetic appreciation...". If taken in certain context, as you have demonstrated, it does convey a sense of irony between something new (America's movement) and something old (traditional Japanese). While the overall description could have been a little less dramatic, I am glad they are at least putting forth an effort to improve the bonsai "scene" in America. I think the delay is a blessing in disguise, as it allows the creators to gather more input from the bonsai community. I'm sure Ryan and Michael would be eager to hear why you would not enter and what they can do to attract more artists/enthusiasts. That would be key for a successful inaugural show.

 

[Poink88]

... just curious to know if anyone else has thoughts about all this.

I am torn.

In one hand, I like inclusion and diversity...on the other I do not want everyone wearing sneakers (including my grandson and grandma) running on the Olympics. A conundrum I am happy I don't have to solve.

My analogy for this is our school system. Education starts at home, to pre-school, kinder, elementary, middle-school, high school, college, masters, doctorate, etc.

Like the Olympics, this is masters level and not for everyone to enter but for the elite/best few and something the rest of us to look or work up to. Ideally all the best would aspire to be in but such scenario hardly happens. Differing opinions, politics, religion, principles, beliefs, etc. hinders things and finding that common ground to make everyone pull the same direction is a toughie.

I wish they would concentrate more on the show and not so much about the fees and prize. Make it a friendly competition where the honor of winning is the biggest prize (not the pot of gold). JMHO.

I wish them luck and success because it will be good for bonsai.

 

[Dan W.]

I mostly agree Dario. My guess on the pot, is that it's meant to entice the very best to enter. They are after the "Olymic" status of bonsai shows in America from what I gather. So they are doing thier best to draw that crowd... from starters. Some of that crowd shows their trees in NY, but I believe there are still many who don't.

-- We can nit-pick the politics of the event all we want, but the reality is that this is Ryan and Michaels show. They will do it how they want and see fit. I'm happy to tag along for the ride, some of you may not be. Thats your right. If anyone else wants to start a different show of the same caliber with a different focus... then go for it. We have room for it. -- Some club shows have grown farily large, though still not national level. With a country as vast as America I'm sure we could host more than two national level shows.

The fact that they had both japanese trained judges and European judges (including Walter Pall) seems pretty well balanced to me.

Vic, I do agree that there are American professionals who have been doing this for a long time... but as for a strong "community of professionals" I don't really see it. There are groups who hang out, collect together...etc. but not a community of professionals like apprentices experience in Japan. That's what I'm guessing they are after.

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

I think you might have missed my point my friend... I said a community of professionals would be great, I contested the notion that our knowledge was limited. It's not. I also challenge the idea that Japan is the font of all knowledge/inspiration, or that it's a requirement for us to be able to elevate our expression of this international art. It's no longer Japanese. It has been for a while... and people need to figure that out.

We appreciate and admire their work, and their strides forward - it can even inspire us... but our strides forward are not going to be based in theirs, and it doesn't have to be. When I look at the work in Europe, it doesn't say Japanese to me... it's says European. Our access to yamadori they can't even dream of will be the first of thing that makes our trees spectacular, and American.

I think we're ready for a second national level show... I think they over-reached without getting support of their own region's community. It was a misstep... one which they now have time to fix. Ryan said in his write up about it that he has figured out he needs to work smarter not harder... that implies getting a wider base of support. That sounds like a step in the right direction to me.

I hope they pull it off... and with the right intention and community involvement.

Warmly,

V

 

[yenling83]

Professional wiring technique was developed and refined by Japanese professionals, so was the Black Pine de-candling/needle pulling techniques and proper methods to repot. The ideas behind creating a juniper foliage pad which mimic junipers growing in the mountains, establishing the crown and the concepts behind general shape and design were all made what they are today by the Japanese.

While I consider myself a very prideful and competitive person and it’s hard for me to admit, I think we currently have a parent/child relationship with Japanese Bonsai and will at least for a long while. My bias would leave me to believe that the U.S. and Japan are close to equal. But, the Japanese are close to hitting a century with their National Exhibit, where it costs thousands just to enter one tree. Just to be accepted as a professional in Japan you must put in at least 5 years of apprenticing under another professional where you are studying for crazy long hours, I have heard of several that put in 5-13 years of apprenticeship. I just don’t see the same in the U.S. quite yet. I don’t see us inventing the technique of grafting a fully refined Japanese maple branch onto another tree, manipulating every root on a 10 yr old maple in development or carving a channel in a live vein to graft juniper so there is no extra bulge at the junction. The vast majority of these newer techniques were all learned from the Japanese even if it was not known and most of the older techniques were all learned from the Japanese as well.

Now on the positive side of things, there are certain artists in the U.S. that could already play in the pros. As a whole we are just new to the game and amazing things are in our future. Pumped for the Artisans Cup of Portland!