Lodge Pole Pine no.1

[Shogun610]

Acquired this awesome Lodge Pole Pine today from Natures Way. I was like a kid in a candy store , and some Pines and Amur maple await for my return one day.
lodge Pole are single flush similar to Scott’s Pine. I’m going to style this in a Literati Bunjin silhouette. This will be into progression thread. Will be kept in the sun , and watered as needed. Was collected in 2020 in spring.

 

[Shogun610]

Question I have is , will the deadwood separation be a problem for pests even if I clean it and lime sulfur again? Also is this angle too long for that one branch? It’s too think to bend I’m gonna play more with angle to get movement, and raffia the branches to style this fall.

 

[Potawatomi13]

So many possibilities with this tree! Michael Hagedorn would offer great perspective. Too good to be ruined carelessly. Four old/w deadwood Ponderosas here. Have done nothing with deadwood and not much worried either. Only pests would be Carpenter ants or Termites. Would not effect live wood. Generally lime sulfur over used/phony unattractive looking and waste of time. Definite personal choice thing.

 

[Shogun610]

So many possibilities with this tree! Michael Hagedorn would offer great perspective. Too good to be ruined carelessly. Four old/w deadwood Ponderosas here. Have done nothing with deadwood and not much worried either. Only pests would be Carpenter ants or Termites. Would not effect live wood. Generally lime sulfur over used/phony unattractive looking and waste of time. Definite personal choice thing.

Cool, yea Id never ruin it carelessly lol. I do like the vertical shape of the angle but might be able to show more moment if I turn it slightly. Is it taboo to have the trunk and deadwood to face forward to the right?

 

[PA_Penjing]

I agree with pots, termites or ants will only make the dead wood look better. Jim is always pleased to see termite holes when we clear away old bark. I personally enjoy that sulfur deadwood look but I don't aim for super naturalistic trees, so it's strictly opinion for me. I have seen a lot of rotten deadwood at the nursery but it's almost always on juniper trunks. Pine branches seem to dry out enough in our climate, but everyone has there secret sauce for keeping dead wood around. Also don't be surprised if you find out that tree has a super gnarly base, Almost everyone I repot gets better under the pumice

 

[Shogun610]

I agree with pots, termites or ants will only make the dead wood look better. Jim is always pleased to see termite holes when we clear away old bark. I personally enjoy that sulfur deadwood look but I don't aim for super naturalistic trees, so it's strictly opinion for me. I have seen a lot of rotten deadwood at the nursery but it's almost always on juniper trunks. Pine branches seem to dry out enough in our climate, but everyone has there secret sauce for keeping dead wood around. Also don't be surprised if you find out that tree has a super gnarly base, Almost everyone I repot gets better under the pumice

Would you advise removing some of the pumice to expose the base more? I don’t want to style the tree in fall only to find that the base could have taken the tree in a whole new direction/ would be easier to make a rig to bend branches before it’s potted up.

 

[Adair M]

Like most things in bonsai, there are techniques that can be used skillfully, or harmfully. Maintaining Jin and Shari with lime sulfur is one of those. Applied straight on dry wood lime sulfur will give an artificial “painted” stark white appearance. However, diluted lime sulfur applied to water saturated wood will allow the lime sulfur to soak into the wood. When dry, it doesn’t appear to be painted on, and with a bit of weathering, looks completely natural. More of a light grey rather than stark white. It still helps to prevent molds and mildew which rots wood. These trees are collected at high elevations where the intense UV rays and low humidity naturally inhibit mold and mildew. When we bring trees into our environments, they lose that natural protection. That’s why, if we want to keep the Jin long term, we have to use lime sulfur. Again, learning how to use it properly is key.

 

[Shogun610]

Like most things in bonsai, there are techniques that can be used skillfully, or harmfully. Maintaining Jin and Shari with lime sulfur is one of those. Applied straight on dry wood lime sulfur will give an artificial “painted” stark white appearance. However, diluted lime sulfur applied to water saturated wood will allow the lime sulfur to soak into the wood. When dry, it doesn’t appear to be painted on, and with a bit of weathering, looks completely natural. More of a light grey rather than stark white. It still helps to prevent molds and mildew which rots wood. These trees are collected at high elevations where the intense UV rays and low humidity naturally inhibit mold and mildew. When we bring trees into our environments, they lose that natural protection. That’s why, if we want to keep the Jin long term, we have to use lime sulfur. Again, learning how to use it properly is key.

Yeah when I said like sulfur I was referring to dilutions w water and ink. My second post was more of a question regarding preservation of the crack that goes between the deadwood since that live vein portion is deep in that crevice.

 

[PA_Penjing]

Would you advise removing some of the pumice to expose the base more? I don’t want to style the tree in fall only to find that the base could have taken the tree in a whole new direction/ would be easier to make a rig to bend branches before it’s potted up.

Definitely expose the base before you style it, that could total change your plans. Whether you do it now or before the styling in fall is your call. Also remember that if you're doing an angle change it's good to keep the pot securely tilted at that angle for some time to let the roots grow at that orientation. But that can be done during the styling.

 

[Shogun610]

Definitely expose the base before you style it, that could total change your plans. Whether you do it now or before the styling in fall is your call. Also remember that if you're doing an angle change it's good to keep the pot securely tilted at that angle for some time to let a new horizontal root system grow. But that can be done during the styling.

Yeah that would be good to set up esp w the vascular root growth in the fall too

 

[LanceMac10]

Would you advise removing some of the pumice to expose the base more? I don’t want to style the tree in fall only to find that the base could have taken the tree in a whole new direction/ would be easier to make a rig to bend branches before it’s potted up.

Fall 2023 I hope......

 

[Shogun610]

Fall 2023 I hope......

It was collected in spring 2020

 

[LanceMac10]

Give it a chance to regain top vigor. You'll appreciate the response of a vigorous specimen, not one that's "alive". Suit yourself.

 

[Shogun610]

Give it a chance to regain top vigor. You'll appreciate the response of a vigorous specimen, not one that's "alive". Suit yourself.

Im not going to repot until Spring 2022. It was collected 2020

 

[Shogun610]

After carefully looking for roots and the base, I’m pretty confident I won’t be doing anything to the tree come fall ,although it was collected over a year ago, I’m not convinced it’s ready for anything .we’ll see come spring if it’s ok to repot

 

[Potawatomi13]

It's a Pine. These not repotted often like deciduous are. Three years very minimal but 5-6 years much preferable IF strong/vigorous. Substrate can be carefully brushed away on top to find where roots/planting angle/front might be. No repot needed to do this. Also may need some years developing wild Yamadori root system before can decently be fit into display pot. "Happy roots, Happy tree" Master John Yoshio Naka Unhappy roots, dead tree! Many of us.

Is it taboo to have the trunk and deadwood to face forward to the right?

Front normally chosen for several reasons. Which way tree faces or leans based on which features best to be displayed. Left/right no matter. Best is best. Two things to note: Yamadori many times do not have good nebari to display and most accept that rest of tree is focal point and ignore this "fault". Between crook at top of main trunk and foliage is long straight horizontal section. This needs to be bent IF POSSIBLE without breaking but tree needs to tilt some way to avoid this section being parallel with ground.

 

[augustine]

Nice tree but not domesticated. Personally I would wait 4 to 5 years to repot.

hope Walter Pall chimes in,

 

[Shogun610]

Nice tree but not domesticated. Personally I would wait 4 to 5 years to repot.

hope Walter Pall chimes in,

Yeah I’m not touching anything , just drawing ideas for future. Won’t repot till it’s 3 years maybe 4. Ideally I’d love to style next fall depending on how it responds.

 

[Shogun610]

It's a Pine. These not repotted often like deciduous are. Three years very minimal but 5-6 years much preferable IF strong/vigorous. Substrate can be carefully brushed away on top to find where roots/planting angle/front might be. No repot needed to do this. Also may need some years developing wild Yamadori root system before can decently be fit into display pot. "Happy roots, Happy tree" Master John Yoshio Naka Unhappy roots, dead tree! Many of us.

Front normally chosen for several reasons. Which way tree faces or leans based on which features best to be displayed. Left/right no matter. Best is best. Two things to note: Yamadori many times do not have good nebari to display and most accept that rest of tree is focal point and ignore this "fault". Between crook at top of main trunk and foliage is long straight horizontal section. This needs to be bent IF POSSIBLE without breaking but tree needs to tilt some way to avoid this section being parallel with ground.

Yep aware of all that , I still am learning a lot about root strength, when I said repot In spring I may have been over zealous thinking I could use a heating pad in a green house to keep root growth going in winter while maintaining dormancy to kinda beat the regular process but will just deal with it after 3-5 years.thank you for your input.

 

[Walter Pall]

Thank you for acquiring one of our trees.
I would cut off the black plastic down to half an inch below soil line. Then I would take off substrate until I found some sort of nebari. Stop then. Then I would decide about styling and start wiring the top and put brenches into position.Then I would let the tree get used to it for two or more yers. In the meanwhile you can look for the final pot. Then I would pot it into the final pot at last week of August to first week of September or second part of April. The tree NEEDS repotting ever ten to fifteen years or never. No kidding.