Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
That means more to me than you will ever know.
Put Up Or Shut Up!
- Thread starter irene_b
- Start date
That means more to me than you will ever know.
Rick Moquin
Omono
Vance,
Interesting read, what is your take on the Shimpaku albeit both Sargentii that the Shimp as we know it comes from Japan vice China? The reason why I ask. is that it is refered to some time as that?
Interesting read, what is your take on the Shimpaku albeit both Sargentii that the Shimp as we know it comes from Japan vice China? The reason why I ask. is that it is refered to some time as that?
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
As far as I know there are three or four different strains of Shimpaku Junipers identified and titled by the locations in Japan where they are, or were, naturally occurring. There is Itoigwa, Kishu and a couple of others that I cannot remember without going through a mountain of old articles and publications.
A lot of the problems we have with a lot of this material comes from an abundance of confusion surrounding much of the material we get out of Japan. Originally this Juniper was identified as a strain of Sargents Juniper, a group of Junipers Identified as belonging to the family loosely identified as Juniperus Chinensis. Juniperus Chinensis generally encompasses all of the scale type Junipers found in this region of Asia which includes China, Korea and Japan. Don't any of you take all of this to the bank, what I am telling you here is from memory and may be inaccurate but it is generally close to the truth.
Another confusing issue is in determining the actual Latin name of a particular tree and trying to associate it with the same tree the Japanese may be discussing. Probably the best example I can recall is that of the Ezzo Spruce, another tree made famous from the early Japanese publications. Here we go. The Ezzo Spruce we commonly run across is Picea Jezzoensis, which is taken to mean Ezzo Spruce or the Spruce associated with the City of Eddo. However the Spruce that the Japanese have used and favored in bonsai is not today known as Ezzo Spruce but Sakhalin Spruce, native to the Sakhalin Islands that were lost to the Japanese during their war with the former Soviet Union. This Spruce is an entirely different tree but the best for bonsai.
I have only seen one. The bottom line is that the Ezzo Spruce as identified in Hortus is not the same Ezzo Spruce used by the Japanese for bonsai. I have also heard it said in one place that the Sakhalin Spruce is sometime called the Red Spruce by the Japanese, and the Ezzo Spruce is called the Black Spruce. It gets confusing when for many years both trees were called Ezzo Spruce. Importation of Sakhalin Spruce into the United States is forbidden and you are not likely to see a mature specimen in the States.
It is this kind of thing that makes identifying some of this stuff accurately nearly impossible. To complicate issues even more the Hortus organization is constantly changing things. I think I mentioned this earlier but one of the debates going on here is whether or not Shimpaku is a separate free standing species instead of a sub-species of Sargents Juniper, so this issue is not, even now, yet resolved.
Last edited:
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
This is a great read here. It is well written and very informative.
I was under the impression that Yesso spruce was recognised as Picea glehnii. It seems that Picea glehnii is Sakhalin spruce from Hokkaido or the land known as Yesso. Giving it a common name of yesso spruce.
Cheers, Al
I was under the impression that Yesso spruce was recognised as Picea glehnii. It seems that Picea glehnii is Sakhalin spruce from Hokkaido or the land known as Yesso. Giving it a common name of yesso spruce.
Cheers, Al
Last edited:
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
You are correct and that reminds me that this is where the confusion started. Picea Glehnii is the Shakalin Spruce and Yesso Spruce. Westerners confused Yesso with Ezzo and thus started the double identity. It's almost like who's on first.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
I don't know!.....third base.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Wow! double post!
Here are the cultivars available from the basic juniper. (Juniperus Chinensis media X) Some of the more poular bonsai cultivars in green.
'Aquarius' - Spreading and compact plant reaching a
height of 4 feet and a spread of 6 feet. The foliage
is blue-green.
'Armstrongii' - An upright plant with a 5 foot height
and spread. J. x media.
'Aurea' (Gold Coast TM) - A 5-foot wide plant with gold
foliage at the branch tips. This 3-foot tall plant
has a minimal requirement for pruning.
'Bakaurea' - (Gold Star TM) - The foliage is light
green except at the tips of the branches where it is
golden. The plant is about 4 feet tall and 6 feet
wide.
'Blaauw' - A compact, dense, irregularly vase shaped
form with deep gray-green foliage. About 4 feet tall
and slightly less in width. J. x media.
'Blue Alps' - Light, bluish-green, prickly foliage is
displayed on a loose, open, upright plant with
arching branches.
'Blue Cloud' - A spreading plant with bluish foliage.
'Blue Point' - Upright, broad, pyramidal form with
dense branches and blue-green foliage. Can be 12
feet tall and 8 feet wide or larger.
'Daub's Frosted' - The bluish foliage is flushed with
yellow. J. x media cultivar.
'Fruitlandii' - Vigorous, 3-foot tall by 6-foot wide
spreading form. The dense, bright green foliage is
very prickly. J. x media.
'Gold Lace' - Yellow foliage on plants that are 4 feet
tall and 6 feet wide.
'Hetzii' - A fast-growing juniper with grayish foliage
and a height of 6 feet (Vis. 1). J. x media.
'Hetzii Columnaris' ('Fairview') - Dense and tightly
branched columnar plant reaching a height of 15 feet
and a width of 5 feet.
'Hetzii Glauca' - A fountain-like form growing 8 feet
tall and 10 feet wide. The foliage is bluish.
'Holbert' - Plants 3 feet tall will spread 8 feet and
have blue foliage.
'Hooks #6' - An upright, pyramidal form reaching a
height of 15 feet and a spread of only 3 feet.
'Iowa' - An erect plant with coarse, sharp, blue-green
foliage. Reaches a height of 10 feet.
'Kallay's Compacta' - A compact form with deep green
foliage. Reaches a height of 3 feet and a spread of
6 feet. J. x media.
'Keteleeri' - A wide, conical form reaching a height of
12 feet (Vis. 2).
'Kuriwao Gold' - A compact and wide-growing form with
arching, upward branches and light green needles that
are golden yellow at the branch tips.
'Mac's Golden' - A dense, pyramidal shrub with
yellowish foliage (Vis. 3) striped with a white
stomatal band.
'Maney' - A dense, semi-erect cultivar with bluish-
green foliage. The foliage color is best in full
sun. A height and spread of about 10 feet.
'Matthew's Blue' - Bright blue foliage. J. x media.
'Milky Way' - A spreading form with white variegations.
J. x media.
'Monlep' (Mint Julep TM) - Bright green foliage on a
compact upward arching form. The plant can be 6 feet
tall and 8 feet wide (Vis. 4). J. x media.
'Mountbatten' - A 20-foot tall, upright pyramid with
silver-green foliage.
'Obelisk' - A narrow, 15-foot columnar form with long,
sharp, blue-green needles.
'Old Gold' - A plant 3 feet tall and 5 feet wide with
yellow foliage. J. x media.
'Ozark' - A compact plant with grayish foliage, 3 feet
tall and twice as wide.
'Pfitzeriana' - An old cultivar that can reach a height
of 6 feet and spread at least twice that. The
foliage is grayish-green. Often planted in
foundation plantings where it quickly becomes too
large. J. x media.
'Pfitzeriana Angelica Blue' - A spreading plant with blue
foliage. J. x media.
'Pfitzeriana Aurea' - Similar to 'Pfitzeriana' but the
branch tips have splotches of bright golden yellow
(Vis. 5). J. x media.
'Pfitzeriana Compacta' - A compact, spreading dwarf
only 3 feet tall but spreading to 6 feet. J. x media.
'Pfitzeriana Compacta Ozark Beauty' - A dense, compact
plant with arching branches and gray green foliage. J.
x media.
'Pfitzeriana Glauca' - Silvery blue foliage otherwise
similar to 'Pfitzeriana' (Vis. 6). J. x media.
'Pfitzeriana Nicks' - Plants will be 3 feet tall but
spread to 6 feet. J. x media.
'Pfitzeriana Owens' - Three-foot tall plants spread to
6 feet and have grayish foliage. J. x media.
'Ramlosa' - A more compact form than 'Pfitzeriana' and
considered hardier than other compact forms.
'Robusta Green' - Upright habit with bright green
foliage. The plant will be about 15 feet tall and 7
feet wide.
'San Jose' - A slow-growing, prostrate form only 2 feet
tall but spreading to 6 feet. The foliage is
described as sage green.
var. sargentii 'Glauca' - Rich blue-green foliage color
the year round. A broadly spreading plant, up to 10
feet wide, but only 2 feet tall (Vis. 9).
var. sargentii 'Viridis' - A low-growing, 10-inch tall
plant that spreads 10 feet or more. The foliage is
rich green all year long. 'Saybrook Gold' - The foliage is tipped with bright
gold. The plant will be 30 inches tall and spread 6
feet.
'Sea Green' - A low, fountain-like form that will grow
3 feet tall and twice as wide (Vis. 7).
'Shimpaku' - A vase-shaped dwarf with green foliage. J. x
media.
'Spartan' - A fast-growing, pyramidal cultivar that
will be 15 feet tall but only a third as wide.
'Spearmint' - A dense, narrow pyramid reaching a height
of 15 feet and spreading to 3 or 4 feet.
'Torulosa' ('Kaizuka') - An unusual plant with dense,
erect, twisted branches and rich green foliage. Can
be 15 feet tall and 10 feet wide.
'Torulosa Variegata' - The growth rate is the same as
'Torulosa' but the foliage is bright green with
pale yellow markings (Vis. 8).
'Wintergreen' - A symmetrical pyramid up to 20 feet
tall and 6 feet wide.
References for Cultivars: Monrovia Nursery Company 1997,
Lake County Nursery 1999, Weston Nurseries 1999, Iseli
Nursery 1999, Bailey Nurseries 1999, Sheridan Nurseries
1999, Zelenka Nursery 1993, Princeton Nurseries 1999, Ray
Wiegand's Nursery 1999, Wayside Gardens 1999, Studebaker
Nurseries 1999, Berryhill Nurseries 1999, Scarff's Nursery
1999, Gee Farms 1999, Midwest Groundcovers 1999, Willoway
Nurseries 1999.
Here are the cultivars available from the basic juniper. (Juniperus Chinensis media X) Some of the more poular bonsai cultivars in green.
'Aquarius' - Spreading and compact plant reaching a
height of 4 feet and a spread of 6 feet. The foliage
is blue-green.
'Armstrongii' - An upright plant with a 5 foot height
and spread. J. x media.
'Aurea' (Gold Coast TM) - A 5-foot wide plant with gold
foliage at the branch tips. This 3-foot tall plant
has a minimal requirement for pruning.
'Bakaurea' - (Gold Star TM) - The foliage is light
green except at the tips of the branches where it is
golden. The plant is about 4 feet tall and 6 feet
wide.
'Blaauw' - A compact, dense, irregularly vase shaped
form with deep gray-green foliage. About 4 feet tall
and slightly less in width. J. x media.
'Blue Alps' - Light, bluish-green, prickly foliage is
displayed on a loose, open, upright plant with
arching branches.
'Blue Cloud' - A spreading plant with bluish foliage.
'Blue Point' - Upright, broad, pyramidal form with
dense branches and blue-green foliage. Can be 12
feet tall and 8 feet wide or larger.
'Daub's Frosted' - The bluish foliage is flushed with
yellow. J. x media cultivar.
'Fruitlandii' - Vigorous, 3-foot tall by 6-foot wide
spreading form. The dense, bright green foliage is
very prickly. J. x media.
'Gold Lace' - Yellow foliage on plants that are 4 feet
tall and 6 feet wide.
'Hetzii' - A fast-growing juniper with grayish foliage
and a height of 6 feet (Vis. 1). J. x media.
'Hetzii Columnaris' ('Fairview') - Dense and tightly
branched columnar plant reaching a height of 15 feet
and a width of 5 feet.
'Hetzii Glauca' - A fountain-like form growing 8 feet
tall and 10 feet wide. The foliage is bluish.
'Holbert' - Plants 3 feet tall will spread 8 feet and
have blue foliage.
'Hooks #6' - An upright, pyramidal form reaching a
height of 15 feet and a spread of only 3 feet.
'Iowa' - An erect plant with coarse, sharp, blue-green
foliage. Reaches a height of 10 feet.
'Kallay's Compacta' - A compact form with deep green
foliage. Reaches a height of 3 feet and a spread of
6 feet. J. x media.
'Keteleeri' - A wide, conical form reaching a height of
12 feet (Vis. 2).
'Kuriwao Gold' - A compact and wide-growing form with
arching, upward branches and light green needles that
are golden yellow at the branch tips.
'Mac's Golden' - A dense, pyramidal shrub with
yellowish foliage (Vis. 3) striped with a white
stomatal band.
'Maney' - A dense, semi-erect cultivar with bluish-
green foliage. The foliage color is best in full
sun. A height and spread of about 10 feet.
'Matthew's Blue' - Bright blue foliage. J. x media.
'Milky Way' - A spreading form with white variegations.
J. x media.
'Monlep' (Mint Julep TM) - Bright green foliage on a
compact upward arching form. The plant can be 6 feet
tall and 8 feet wide (Vis. 4). J. x media.
'Mountbatten' - A 20-foot tall, upright pyramid with
silver-green foliage.
'Obelisk' - A narrow, 15-foot columnar form with long,
sharp, blue-green needles.
'Old Gold' - A plant 3 feet tall and 5 feet wide with
yellow foliage. J. x media.
'Ozark' - A compact plant with grayish foliage, 3 feet
tall and twice as wide.
'Pfitzeriana' - An old cultivar that can reach a height
of 6 feet and spread at least twice that. The
foliage is grayish-green. Often planted in
foundation plantings where it quickly becomes too
large. J. x media.
'Pfitzeriana Angelica Blue' - A spreading plant with blue
foliage. J. x media.
'Pfitzeriana Aurea' - Similar to 'Pfitzeriana' but the
branch tips have splotches of bright golden yellow
(Vis. 5). J. x media.
'Pfitzeriana Compacta' - A compact, spreading dwarf
only 3 feet tall but spreading to 6 feet. J. x media.
'Pfitzeriana Compacta Ozark Beauty' - A dense, compact
plant with arching branches and gray green foliage. J.
x media.
'Pfitzeriana Glauca' - Silvery blue foliage otherwise
similar to 'Pfitzeriana' (Vis. 6). J. x media.
'Pfitzeriana Nicks' - Plants will be 3 feet tall but
spread to 6 feet. J. x media.
'Pfitzeriana Owens' - Three-foot tall plants spread to
6 feet and have grayish foliage. J. x media.
'Ramlosa' - A more compact form than 'Pfitzeriana' and
considered hardier than other compact forms.
'Robusta Green' - Upright habit with bright green
foliage. The plant will be about 15 feet tall and 7
feet wide.
'San Jose' - A slow-growing, prostrate form only 2 feet
tall but spreading to 6 feet. The foliage is
described as sage green.
var. sargentii 'Glauca' - Rich blue-green foliage color
the year round. A broadly spreading plant, up to 10
feet wide, but only 2 feet tall (Vis. 9).
var. sargentii 'Viridis' - A low-growing, 10-inch tall
plant that spreads 10 feet or more. The foliage is
rich green all year long. 'Saybrook Gold' - The foliage is tipped with bright
gold. The plant will be 30 inches tall and spread 6
feet.
'Sea Green' - A low, fountain-like form that will grow
3 feet tall and twice as wide (Vis. 7).
'Shimpaku' - A vase-shaped dwarf with green foliage. J. x
media.
'Spartan' - A fast-growing, pyramidal cultivar that
will be 15 feet tall but only a third as wide.
'Spearmint' - A dense, narrow pyramid reaching a height
of 15 feet and spreading to 3 or 4 feet.
'Torulosa' ('Kaizuka') - An unusual plant with dense,
erect, twisted branches and rich green foliage. Can
be 15 feet tall and 10 feet wide.
'Torulosa Variegata' - The growth rate is the same as
'Torulosa' but the foliage is bright green with
pale yellow markings (Vis. 8).
'Wintergreen' - A symmetrical pyramid up to 20 feet
tall and 6 feet wide.
References for Cultivars: Monrovia Nursery Company 1997,
Lake County Nursery 1999, Weston Nurseries 1999, Iseli
Nursery 1999, Bailey Nurseries 1999, Sheridan Nurseries
1999, Zelenka Nursery 1993, Princeton Nurseries 1999, Ray
Wiegand's Nursery 1999, Wayside Gardens 1999, Studebaker
Nurseries 1999, Berryhill Nurseries 1999, Scarff's Nursery
1999, Gee Farms 1999, Midwest Groundcovers 1999, Willoway
Nurseries 1999.
Last edited:
AndyWilson
Mame
Okay excuse the begginer question here but is the yesso spruce the same as the yezo spruce (picea jezoensis)? hear those are also called yeddo spruce. Are these all different names for the same thing?
Rick Moquin
Omono
Thanks are extended to both Al and Vance for enlightning us on this subject. May I be so forward as to ask which are the top ten cultivars to use as bonsai from the extended list provided.
Brent
Mame
From our catalog: http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/picea.htm
"A word of caution about Yezo spruce and Sachalin spruce: There is a great deal of confusion surrounding the naming of these two species, especially in the use of the common names. Many bonsai artists speak of 'Yezo Spruce' when the plant to which they are referring is actually P. glehnii. We cannot be responsible for how people use common names. We guarantee that our plants are in fact named correctly botanically, so please try to determine which species it is that you would like to order. In general, P. glehnii is the smaller, slower growing species of the two with needle length about 1/2 inch, and dark green. Picea jezoensis is slightly larger, faster growing with green needles from about 3/4 to 1 inch long. Picea jezoensis hondoensis has slightly bluish green needles of about 1 to 1 1/2 inches long and is the fastest growing of the three. Picea orientalis actually has the shortest needles of the three."
Picea jezoensis hondoensis is also know as Hondo spruce. Hondo spruce, although it is the largest of this group is a very tough tree. It does well even in our hot arid conditions, surviving a lot abuse. Picea orientalis is successful here, but not as tough. Picea glehnii is tricky, and I have a great deal of trouble growing it.
Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com
see our blog at http://BonsaiNurseryman.typepad.com
"A word of caution about Yezo spruce and Sachalin spruce: There is a great deal of confusion surrounding the naming of these two species, especially in the use of the common names. Many bonsai artists speak of 'Yezo Spruce' when the plant to which they are referring is actually P. glehnii. We cannot be responsible for how people use common names. We guarantee that our plants are in fact named correctly botanically, so please try to determine which species it is that you would like to order. In general, P. glehnii is the smaller, slower growing species of the two with needle length about 1/2 inch, and dark green. Picea jezoensis is slightly larger, faster growing with green needles from about 3/4 to 1 inch long. Picea jezoensis hondoensis has slightly bluish green needles of about 1 to 1 1/2 inches long and is the fastest growing of the three. Picea orientalis actually has the shortest needles of the three."
Picea jezoensis hondoensis is also know as Hondo spruce. Hondo spruce, although it is the largest of this group is a very tough tree. It does well even in our hot arid conditions, surviving a lot abuse. Picea orientalis is successful here, but not as tough. Picea glehnii is tricky, and I have a great deal of trouble growing it.
Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com
see our blog at http://BonsaiNurseryman.typepad.com
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Most all the spruces used for bonsai and indeginous to Japan come from the northern most island of Hokkaido. It has been known as Yesso, yeddo, Ezo. Yes there are different cultivars being talked about here, but they all seem to be grouped as one of those common names.
Much like the confusion that Vance noted with shinpaku, shimpaku. Many of the cultivars on the list I provided are simply called shimpaku here in the US. All trees when being displayed or talked about should be posted with their latin botanical name, if known, or at least most recent. They have been known to change without warning.
Much like the confusion that Vance noted with shinpaku, shimpaku. Many of the cultivars on the list I provided are simply called shimpaku here in the US. All trees when being displayed or talked about should be posted with their latin botanical name, if known, or at least most recent. They have been known to change without warning.
AndyWilson
Mame
Thanks for clearing that up 
Similar threads
