Species Study - Acer Saccharum/Acer Saccharinum

[Frozentreehugger]

I’m learning why silver maple are originally near water . These are some of the thirstiest trees I have ever played with . My large collected one will easily dry out its container on a hot day . Even some wilting a few times . Yes it’s fairly large and I’ve just let it grow since collections. This spring . But keep in mind it’s in a 45 L 12 Gallon storage container for a pot . Going to up the water holding capacity of the soil for all them . At repots . Looks like some sort of auto water system is needed before it makes it to a small pot

 

[GGB]

I’m learning why silver maple are originally near water . These are some of the thirstiest trees I have ever played with . My large collected one will easily dry out its container on a hot day . Even some wilting a few times . Yes it’s fairly large and I’ve just let it grow since collections. This spring . But keep in mind it’s in a 45 L 12 Gallon storage container for a pot . Going to up the water holding capacity of the soil for all them . At repots . Looks like some sort of auto water system is needed before it makes it to a small pot

I've collected silver maples out of the river before. Actually waded in and pulled them from the mud. I would bet on the hottest days you could soak the pot for a few hours like a blad cypress and it would be happier than a pig in...

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I've collected silver maples out of the river before. Actually waded in and pulled them from the mud. I would bet on the hottest days you could soak the pot for a few hours like a blad cypress and it would be happier than a pig in...

Might have to try that . It’s crazy to watch the speed . The tree recovers if it’s dry and has slight amount of wilting leaves . You can actually watch the leaves perk up while you water . 2 to 3 minutes there right as rain .

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Interestingly, I did a search on "sugar maple bonsai" and not a single tree that popped up in image search was a sugar maple I made sure to use quotes on "sugar maple"... and all I got was Japanese maples and tridents

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Interestingly, I did a search on "sugar maple bonsai" and not a single tree that popped up in image search was a sugar maple I made sure to use quotes on "sugar maple"... and all I got was Japanese maples and tridents

Same as any search I have tried . The only show quality one I have ever seen . Was from Quebec . For all the known reasons it was rather large . About 4 feet tall collected tree . Windswept style with a large heavily carved trunk . I seen it in late spring had just been defoliated . Owner had great pics of it in fall colour . Not your run of the mill bonsai . Part of his solution to the nature of the tree . Was keep the branches and foliage sparse . Very dramatic

 

[GGB]

I follow an account on Instagram called “Arcadia valley bonsai” and the owner uses a lot sugar maple. Unfortunately they are all pretty far out from being finished. I don’t think he completely defoliates his. Someone does but I don’t remember who…. Either way, the result seems good. 2” leaves. Don’t know how hard it is on the tree though, jury is still out until someone rises as the sugar god

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I follow an account on Instagram called “Arcadia valley bonsai” and the owner uses a lot sugar maple. Unfortunately they are all pretty far out from being finished. I don’t think he completely defoliates his. Someone does but I don’t remember who…. Either way, the result seems good. 2” leaves. Don’t know how hard it is on the tree though, jury is still out until someone rises as the sugar god

Biggest hindrance . As far as I’m concerned is difficulty finding great wild material. In there natural range . They are climax tree they slowly take over because they create intense shade . That only there seedlings will survive . They will grow in full sun . But struggle to compete with other faster growing trees . Up here Canadian Shield . Rocky outcrops best chance is a rock pocket tree near a maple forest . Like all trees in bonsai the interest starts with wild collected trees . Add to that bigger leaves and long internodes . The interest is just not there in the general bonsai community .

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Might as well add this here was in other . Tree is sugar maple collected this spring roadside rock crack tree was chainsawed back I estimate 3 to 4 years ago by Ontario hydro ( power company ) normal maintenance so no interference with power lines pic is 1 week old starting to leaf out a little unsure if I got enough roots All u could get I. Pocket but several main roots went deep into rock crack

Quick update did not take a photo . Still a little embarrassed to call myself a Canadian . what I thought before bud swelling last spring was a sugar maple . Is a silver maple . Rock crack collected . Last spring there was a few surface roots . But like all collections take all you can get which wax the surface roots and a leap root that went sideways the. Son more fine roots . Was worried not a lot of roots . It responded quickly .by mid summer I was feeding it heavily . This thing is a weed . Was considering another year in the container before repot . But nope . It’s heavy enough to move . Going into the shed for winter storage on weekend I broke a small chunk out of bottom corner of container . It’s crammed with roots . To put it in perspective . The top shoots went from 2 feet to 12 the container is a 12 US gallon 45.5 litre . Tote

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Pics from yesterdays repotting . Glad it’s finally out of the recovery container . I’m getting to old to move something that heavy . Still have a slightly smaller one to go . Most aggressive growing tree I have played with . Root growth is is from marginally enough to survive to this in 1 year

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Here is the not so little brother . Was a more challenging repot into the bus tub . Originally I had to go deeper when collecting . To get viable roots It was potted in a deep narrow pot . So again most of the roots started deep . Had to be aggressive with main . Root reduction . For this repot . Again aggressive growing tree . Was somewhat slower to recover than the first one , again both trees were collected on top of a rock cut at the side of a back road . The original chop . Was performed by the power company . Growing out of cracks in rock under the power line .

 

[HorseloverFat]

Very nice, can't wait to see it in leaf.

I REALLY gotta start updating.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Pics from yesterdays repotting . Glad it’s finally out of the recovery container . I’m getting to old to move something that heavy . Still have a slightly smaller one to go . Most aggressive growing tree I have played with . Root growth is is from marginally enough to survive to this in 1 year

As I suspected when collecting . This tree actually started as 2 trees growing g in the rock crack . Then fused together . When young . Also for those interested . Don’t overlook this roadside under power line . Collecting opportunities . Trees are regularly hacked and trimmed . Remember that at least here anyway . The municipality owns or gas stewardship . Over the land at side of road . Before a fence . Making tracking down someone to ask permission . Fairly easy . At least in a rural area I have had no problem . Trees are actually considered liability to the power line .. Beyond legality if permission . Make sure where you dig larger power lines often have underground cables .

 

[HorseloverFat]

As I suspected when collecting . This tree actually started as 2 trees growing g in the rock crack . Then fused together . When young . Also for those interested . Don’t overlook this roadside under power line . Collecting opportunities . Trees are regularly hacked and trimmed . Remember that at least here anyway . The municipality owns or gas stewardship . Over the land at side of road . Before a fence . Making tracking down someone to ask permission . Fairly easy . At least in a rural area I have had no problem . Trees are actually considered liability to the power line .. Beyond legality if permission . Make sure where you dig larger power lines often have underground cables .

We have trail clearers that wack down trees pretty nicely like you have described here.

My personal issue with collecting North American Local Acer specimens Is this...

I've grown, now, enough of them from seed to know that MANY are leaning into those "large leaf/long internode traits"..

Now yes, through my experience, all The North American Acers will reduce (EXCEPT petioles of Platenoides) in leaf and internodes....

But more than half "start" huge...

So I'm apprehensive to fall in love with these old trunks I see, because I KNOW the odds are that it's "one of those"...

But as I said, they ALL reduce...

...when you're down here... YOU reduce TOO!!...

SORRY .. I have Tim Curry-itis.

Anyways.. if you aim large.. it won't matter...

I really like that first one you pictured recently.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Silver Maple with interesting dead wood.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

We have trail clearers that wack down trees pretty nicely like you have described here.

My personal issue with collecting North American Local Acer specimens Is this...

I've grown, now, enough of them from seed to know that MANY are leaning into those "large leaf/long internode traits"..

Now yes, through my experience, all The North American Acers will reduce (EXCEPT petioles of Platenoides) in leaf and internodes....

But more than half "start" huge...

So I'm apprehensive to fall in love with these old trunks I see, because I KNOW the odds are that it's "one of those"...

But as I said, they ALL reduce...

...when you're down here... YOU reduce TOO!!...

SORRY .. I have Tim Curry-itis.

Anyways.. if you aim large.. it won't matter...

I really like that first one you pictured recently.

I guess I look at it different than most . I grow my trees for personal pleasure . Not interested in winning awards . The fact that Japanese maples have smaller leaves , and reduce even more .is in material to me . First I can’t grow them here . But mainly I think it’s the wrong way to consider it . Chinese elm has smaller leaves that reduce very small , a lot smaller than JM . Does that mean JM are not good material .

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Silver Maple with interesting dead wood.

View attachment 484772

Very typical
Of there growth . There are some massive ones in the old town I live in . I have gained a new respect for there storm tolerance . There often considered poor choice . I feel is unjust . Several
Heavy winds including the deracheo last summer . I observed . There seems a combination of there leaves flatten out in high wind , and there softer wood allows them to bend and sway . Storms that wreaked havoc . On hardwoods like oak and sugar maple . Both considered more storm resistant . Did minor damage to the silvers .

 

[Orion_metalhead]

We have trail clearers that wack down trees pretty nicely like you have described here.

My personal issue with collecting North American Local Acer specimens Is this...

I've grown, now, enough of them from seed to know that MANY are leaning into those "large leaf/long internode traits"..

Now yes, through my experience, all The North American Acers will reduce (EXCEPT petioles of Platenoides) in leaf and internodes....

But more than half "start" huge...

So I'm apprehensive to fall in love with these old trunks I see, because I KNOW the odds are that it's "one of those"...

But as I said, they ALL reduce...

...when you're down here... YOU reduce TOO!!...

SORRY .. I have Tim Curry-itis.

Anyways.. if you aim large.. it won't matter...

I really like that first one you pictured recently.

I think you have to grow large internode/leaf acers in pots from early on to properly get the reduction required to be worthwhile specimens. My silver maples grow large leafs but the first leaf pair is usually small. You need to create ramification first early on so that you create enough budding points to distribute high energy trees' vigor after pinching and pruning. Use sacrificial branches as energy drains from other parts of tbe tree. Leaf cut and reduce photosynthetic material... Ryan Neil's theory of "gas pedals" if you will.

 

[19Mateo83]

I have a ton of these on their third year in 2.5 inch pots. They are 12-18 inches tall and they are FREE to good homes, you just pay the shipping. Drop me a message if anyone is interested. They are 12-18” tall. I also have some in one gallon pots that are 3-4’ tall from the same batch as well.

 

[HorseloverFat]

I think you have to grow large internode/leaf acers in pots from early on to properly get the reduction required to be worthwhile specimens. My silver maples grow large leafs but the first leaf pair is usually small. You need to create ramification first early on so that you create enough budding points to distribute high energy trees' vigor after pinching and pruning. Use sacrificial branches as energy drains from other parts of tbe tree. Leaf cut and reduce photosynthetic material... Ryan Neil's theory of "gas pedals" if you will.

Yeah, bredda. I understand ramification on a cellular level. I was not trying to belittle AT ALL! I'd be proud to have some beefy ass Acer specimens like that!

I literally mean... I've grown enough from seed to know the numbers vs. what I am personally aiming for trait wise. I WANT to be able to "select"!

300-500 seedlings observed each year for a few now. Weeded down (yearly) to about 12-20 decent for bonsai. (Some others to landscape, but not many, most planted out on public lands)

The rate of "desirable" is much higher on Tatarican. As I imagine some of the other "usual suspects" are.

Like I said, all WILL reduce...

I just happen to know, regarding Silvers Reds and Freeman's.... You watch hundreds of seedlings to get those nice tight internodes and small leaves (off the "bat").

Now, regarding Silvers, Reds and Freeman's and planting 800(or so) seeds at a time, a decent amount (like another 20-25) normally end up in the 'medium range' which will reduce very nicely.

Hell! Even the huge leaf/long internode specimens will reduce reasonably with a touch more finesse... A guy in GB swears by tegmentosum... He gets 'what he is looking for"

I just really like the first 3 years of a trees life. And am obsessed with Acer genetics/traits.

 

[AJL]

Silver Maple with interesting dead wood.

View attachment 484772

Interesting but thats bloody dangerous so near the sidewalk and road! The owner would be liable if it falls on a passing car!