Bonsai Nut

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I'm opposite! I'm not a fan of what is easily recognizable as a SR pot. Mad respect for her as a Potter though.

Those are both SR pots. I am not a big fan of the first... but I love the second :) I was using them to illustrate a point. Goes to show how people's preferences differ - even when viewing pots from the same potter!
 

penumbra

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I would proudly own and display any of the 3 pots you have shown us. Each of them is useful to someone and all would be useful for many. There are a lot of very good suggestions here from people a lot more knowledgeable than me. But the market is so large that I feel you could pretty much do what you want and find happy homes for your ware.
My advice is to take all these comments and just follow your heart. Consider the principles of bonsai and incorporate those elements. (such as tie down holes that so many insist on yet I seldom use.) I think you have a very bright future and as your bonsai skills develop, your pots will reflect this. Bonsai is evolving and so should bonsai pots. As someone who is an on again off again potter, I am very covetous your skill and your imagination.
There was a comment about not caring much for texture and oxides from a well respected bonsai person here. I would say to respect this but don't consider it a reflection of the bonsai community at large. Oxides and texture are my two favorite techniques used in bonsai pots, but this probably comes more from the aspect of me as a potter who fully appreciates naked clay techniques.
Also, colorful pots sell well for me and it is fun to play with interactions of glazes, so I make them because they sell. They are very useful for smaller plants, flowering bonsai, tropicals and companion plants. Blue is by far the most popular color in glazed pots I have made.
The more I use them, the more I appreciate round pots and I use a lot of them. They are easier for me to make, or at least faster to make. We make some pots to sell. We make some pots to please us. And frequently those pieces that are made to please ourselves are warmly received by others, even if we deign (tongue in cheek) to break a few rules.
Love your work.........
 
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sorce

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Oxides like, making washes so thin they run, I despise, when it is merely to change the color of a pot that can be more beautiful with the right effort.

Your top left one can be done that way as far as I can tell, but if it was, it was done well enough to not tell.

A lot like that (not that yours is but they exist), can be perfectly suitable for a display, but a potter, as you are and it clearly shows, or a true connoisseur, will not be able to fully enjoy it, no awards, etc, if the bottom shows these drips.

I am quite amazed at your transition to understanding the bonsai aesthetic, not many potters make the transition so seamlessly.

Sorce
 

penumbra

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Oxides like, making washes so thin they run, I despise, when it is merely to change the color of a pot that can be more beautiful with the right effort.

Your top left one can be done that way as far as I can tell, but if it was, it was done well enough to not tell.

A lot like that (not that yours is but they exist), can be perfectly suitable for a display, but a potter, as you are and it clearly shows, or a true connoisseur, will not be able to fully enjoy it, no awards, etc, if the bottom shows these drips.

I am quite amazed at your transition to understanding the bonsai aesthetic, not many potters make the transition so seamlessly.

Sorce
I have seen a lot of bad pottery but I guess you have seen more bad pottery. I have not seen oxides used carelessly but it stands to reason that they have been since every other form of ceramic arts has been done very badly as well. Oxides, like glazes or even modeling the clay body can be horrendous or exquisite.
 

Bonsai Nut

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I'm just going to toss this into the thread, in case you haven't seen it. You are already an advanced ceramics professional, but this is such a great video on bonsai pot production, it should not be missed:

Bonsai Empire's Tokoname Pot Video
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I just noticed you are based in Holland, Michigan. I believe you are the 3rd or 4th potter from MI. Though I think you and Linda Ippel are the only two that are full time bonsai potters in MI. Or full time potters who's output includes bonsai pots.

I like what I see of your pots. You have the "right idea" about the pot should not be all ego. Though I admit to buying a few pots because of their the "ego" aspect. My favorite pots are pretty understated. There was a "Kraken" pot on a facebook auction the other day, Big eyeball staring at you. It was a stunning pot, but I can not imagine any tree being bold enough to go with the pot. A lot of us will buy 5 or more really subdued pots, then "go mad" and pick up one or two spectacular "potter's ego showing off" pots.

Bright and colorful glazes are easier to work with than figures, like the "Kraken" example. Dragons, snakes and other creatures staring at the viewer are just not easy to match to a tree. A bold colorful glaze will tone down in color as a patina develops.

Pot size. Yes, too many small pots out there, not enough larger pots. Many trees need inside depths for roots of 3 to 4 inches, many pots are too shallow even if they are large enough.

Cascade pots, the taller than the width or diameter pots are somewhat out of style, especially the exaggerated tall cascades. The current fad is height is the same as the upper depth and width being equal or for rounds, the upper diameter and the height being equal.

For freeze thaw resistance, always have the upper rim be wider than the base. This way as the soil mass freezes and expands, the soil mass can slide up. Outward flaring diagonal side walls will survive freeze thaw where perfectly vertical walls might be totally vitrified, but the pressure of the expanding ice in the soil will pop or crack the walls of the pot. Bag shapes, where the upper rim comes back in on the potting media are guaranteed to break.

I like your work. Looking forward to seeing more of it.
 

AZbonsai

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I am learning a great deal from this conversation. Can you folks talk feet? Bonsai pot feet.. Size..shape...style....asthetic?
 

sorce

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Most popular foot shapes are the way they are because they easily survive a firing.

Kinda ties into why there are few large pots, the bigger they are, the more they shrink, the more they shrink, the more they break.

Round the inside so they glide easy.

Sorce
 

StoneForest

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Welcome to the site! I really like what I see of your work!

One bit of advice I would give is to always remember that the pot and tree have to complement one another. You never want a pot that is the primary focus of attention. One reason why most bonsai pots use earth tones is because that is what most bonsai trees use :) Many earth tone pots can be used with many trees... while if you have a colorful glazed pot, its use is generally more specific - and may be purchased for only one specific tree in an enthusiast's collection; perhaps to complement its blooms, fruit, or fall color. I often will see people who first get into bonsai potting creating unusual designs and using brilliant glazes, but that's not where the market demand is. That doesn't mean that there isn't room for tons of creativity, but always keep the tree in the back of your mind. Simple shapes sell well... but if you want to be creative try to use organic shapes and natural textures. For example if you start thinking about making pots that look like stone, or the side of a cliff, or a pile of leaves, or a hollow piece of log, or a piece of bamboo... there is no limit to your creativity. Also crackle textures and finishes that mimic bark, lines that mirror the shadow of a branch, or drip glazes that look like water, things along those lines.

Also, keep in mind that it is not just the design and color of the pot that matters... it is the patina; the feeling of the pot being old and being used for a long time. To the extent that you can make your pot look old (even if it is new) you will attract more buyers. (Make sure you are familiar with the Japanese art asthetic of wabi-sabi).

Because most potters start with wheel-thrown pots, there are a lot of round pots out there, when rectangular shapes (slab built pots) are the number one shape of pot. Something to keep in mind. Additionally, I think the market is over-supplied with small pots. I understand the risk and cost associated with larger pots, but I have very few trees that would be planted in a pot smaller than 8"... and I can't tell you how many pots I see offered that are smaller than that, when my interest usually starts at 12" and goes up from there. A 12" pot would normally work for a 12 - 18" tree (as a general guideline depending on a lot of things). Just looking at all the trees on this site, how many are smaller than 12" tall? (not many)

My all-around favorite domestic potter is Sara Rayner. I have been following her work for over 25 years, and her pots are pretty universally excellent now - both showing plenty of creativity and individuality while working well for bonsai. She is a good example to look at because I think her portfolio is both uniquely American and yet embraces Japanese esthetic.

A new pot that looks old:
View attachment 332206

A simple pot with organic glaze. Note that the glaze gives the impression of wearing thin on the edges and rim of the pot - as if it had been handled for years - even though the pot is new.
View attachment 332205

Also for ideas look at high level exhibition bonsai, and the pots they are displayed in. @Walter Pall is a member here, and some of his exhibition pots are incredible - particularly some of his Japanese maple pots.
Welcome to the site! I really like what I see of your work!

One bit of advice I would give is to always remember that the pot and tree have to complement one another. You never want a pot that is the primary focus of attention. One reason why most bonsai pots use earth tones is because that is what most bonsai trees use :) Many earth tone pots can be used with many trees... while if you have a colorful glazed pot, its use is generally more specific - and may be purchased for only one specific tree in an enthusiast's collection; perhaps to complement its blooms, fruit, or fall color. I often will see people who first get into bonsai potting creating unusual designs and using brilliant glazes, but that's not where the market demand is. That doesn't mean that there isn't room for tons of creativity, but always keep the tree in the back of your mind. Simple shapes sell well... but if you want to be creative try to use organic shapes and natural textures. For example if you start thinking about making pots that look like stone, or the side of a cliff, or a pile of leaves, or a hollow piece of log, or a piece of bamboo... there is no limit to your creativity. Also crackle textures and finishes that mimic bark, lines that mirror the shadow of a branch, or drip glazes that look like water, things along those lines.

Also, keep in mind that it is not just the design and color of the pot that matters... it is the patina; the feeling of the pot being old and being used for a long time. To the extent that you can make your pot look old (even if it is new) you will attract more buyers. (Make sure you are familiar with the Japanese art asthetic of wabi-sabi).

Because most potters start with wheel-thrown pots, there are a lot of round pots out there, when rectangular shapes (slab built pots) are the number one shape of pot. Something to keep in mind. Additionally, I think the market is over-supplied with small pots. I understand the risk and cost associated with larger pots, but I have very few trees that would be planted in a pot smaller than 8"... and I can't tell you how many pots I see offered that are smaller than that, when my interest usually starts at 12" and goes up from there. A 12" pot would normally work for a 12 - 18" tree (as a general guideline depending on a lot of things). Just looking at all the trees on this site, how many are smaller than 12" tall? (not many)

My all-around favorite domestic potter is Sara Rayner. I have been following her work for over 25 years, and her pots are pretty universally excellent now - both showing plenty of creativity and individuality while working well for bonsai. She is a good example to look at because I think her portfolio is both uniquely American and yet embraces Japanese esthetic.

A new pot that looks old:
View attachment 332206

A simple pot with organic glaze. Note that the glaze gives the impression of wearing thin on the edges and rim of the pot - as if it had been handled for years - even though the pot is new.
View attachment 332205

Also for ideas look at high level exhibition bonsai, and the pots they are displayed in. @Walter Pall is a member here, and some of his exhibition pots are incredible - particularly some of his Japanese maple pots.
Thank you, Bonsai Nut, for your insight. All good advice. I do gravitate toward organic surfaces and textures. The popularity of brightly colored pots with sculptural elements has had me a little confused, so it is good to know that well-made "quiet" pots are still in demand. I can make four-foot-tall floor jars, so large pots are no problem... However, shipping anything that takes a box over 12 inches costs an incredible amount of money and that problem is only getting worse. For that reason I've kept most of the pots I've put up on my site and on the auction sites smaller. I hate telling someone that it will cost $58 to send a pot their way. I would love to become a vendor and take a display of pottery to some bonsai shows in the Midwest or even Northeast/Southeast, but it seems to be difficult to break into...so for now the auction sites are helping me to get some work out there. I do admire Sara Rayner's work. I would love to meet her one day and see some of her work in person.
 

StoneForest

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To continue on this theme, I wanted to share my thoughts about your koi pot. I love this pot because of its subject matter as well as its technical excellence... but I don't think it would work for bonsai. It is far too strong of a pot. The imagery is bold, the colors bright, and contrast dramatic. If you think about the tree that would work best in this pot, it would perhaps be a small azalea with white blooms, maybe a dwarf quince, or perhaps a small tree in a weeping form to build on the pond theme. Any tree like that would be visually overwhelmed by the pot. For it to work as a bonsai pot, everything would need to be dialed down (in my opinion). Instead of a deep blue, perhaps a light blue. Make the brush strokes finer. Make everything less literal, and more suggestive. (My personal opinion, but others might disagree).

That's not to say that I wouldn't love to own that pot. But it would be a display pot - never to be used with a tree.
Thank you for the compliment on the koi pot! It was an experimental piece to try using a traditional Chinese oxide recipe for the blue. I think it is too loud for bonsai, but really didn't know how it would turn out until it was finished. I agree that more muted colors might suit a tree better. It will take practice to learn to control the application.
 

StoneForest

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That lipped shino joint is dope. Too inexpensive though!

Every Shohin stand can use at least one pop out like the koi pot. So every Shohin collector needs about 30!

Sorce
Thank you, Sorce! That pot is stained with iron oxide and fired in reduction so it has a satiny finish. I did like the rope edge border. Thank you for the compliment on the koi pot!
 

StoneForest

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Small pots, suitable for Shohin display, can be brighter. Shohin display is a whole separate aspect of “bonsai”, and allows more freedom of expression than does traditional bonsai.

I agree with Bonsai Nut in that there are too many potters making round and oval pots. There are hardly any potters making really good rectangles. Especially unglazed rectangles.

I don’t like the rough textured looks, or the oxide finishes that attempt to make a new pot look “old”. They just look “fake”. Instead, just make good high quality pots that will age naturally.

Study the pots of Gyosan, Bigei, Shuzan, etc. They make pots that will be considered treasures in 30 years.
Thank you for your input, Adair M! I will be sure to work on rectangles. And I will look up the names you've suggested.
 

StoneForest

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One other comment after visiting your site - make sure your bonsai pots are functional. That typically includes:

(1) Heavy; stable; not easily overturned
(2) Proper drainage
(3) Wire tie-down holes
(4) No thin edges
(5) Frost-proof

Because these pots have to sit out in all sorts of weather and be subject to all kinds of situations, they need to be built to take some abuse. The last thing you want is to pay $$$ for a nice pot, be working a tree, accidentally drop your wire cutters, and break off part of the rim. Pots are moved around on benches and will occasionally bump into each other. They will be picked up, put down, and spun around while full of dirt and a heavy tree, etc. They will be in blazing Arizona sun on a 110 degree day, or huddled under a Minnesota bench when it is -20. I have even had pots with trees in them get blown off a bench during a thunderstorm, and be none the worse for wear. So make sure that the function is at least as good as the form.
Bonsai Nut, I will keep all those things in mind. I do try to make solidly functional work. The "frost-proof" thing, though... As a potter that term kind of bugs me. All ceramic has some porosity. Any moisture absorption affects the clay body, and all things erode with time, even granite. All my work is vitrified, but vitrified isn't necessarily frost-proof. I run tests on my clay bodies that involve firing, soaking for 12 hours, boiling for 5 hours, weighing at each stage and plugging into a calculation to tell me if the body is "frost resistant", meaning that once moisture enters the walls there will be sufficient capillary action to allow it to escape again. But I don't feel I can say that it is "frost-proof", and that bothers me. I know the way I look at it is much more complicated than bonsai buyers even care to know, but I want to be honest. Even a badly fitting glaze can rip a clay body apart when subjected to stress like temperature fluctuation. But I'll do my best to insure my work is as durable as possible.
 

StoneForest

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It depends.

Shohin pots should be as thin as possible! The reason is Shohin trees have small rootballs. If the walls of the Shohin pot are thin, then there’s room for more soil inside the pot.
Interesting...Shohin being less than 6 inches?
 

StoneForest

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I like the koi pot. With use, a patina will develop. This will “soften” the look.

If it starts off “soft”, after a number of years of use, the patina could obscure the painting too much.
Adair M, I'm not sure if underglazes beneath clear glaze on porcelain will fade much, but I'd be interested to see how it weathers. This little koi pot was an experiment to see how the blue stain recipe turned out, and I agree that it's a bit loud. I'll lean toward a gentler touch next time.
 

StoneForest

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Yeah... the fact that we are having a discussion about it means that it is "in the wheelhouse" of what a good bonsai pot is - and we are talking about preferences and application. Looking at it a little closer, it may be much smaller than what I initially thought it was.
It is small, just 5 3/4 x 2 3/8.
 

StoneForest

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I think you will sell what people like. Of the three pots you showed in you first post, I like the first one by far above the others. I have looked at sites where flashy, bright, poorly made pots sell well, and I have no idea why. I agree with Sara Raynor's pots being nice, but of the two shown, I would buy the first one and would not touch the second one. The size, shape, texture, colors make the difference to me, not the potter. I also agree that there are way to many smaller pots being made, and also not enough for conifers in my opinion. I don't like a plain jane, smooth sided pots...it has to have texture/design something to make it interesting but it needs to be balanced with the size and shape of the pot. Just my thoughts. I wish you success!

Thank you Peter44!
 

StoneForest

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I am a big fan of bonsai pottery.
That said, your koi pot would fit perfectly one of my shohin plants.
Does it have a good drainage hole?
;)
Thank you, Clicio...drainage hole might be on the small side; my finger slides through comfortably. four wiring holes.
 

StoneForest

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I would proudly own and display any of the 3 pots you have shown us. Each of them is useful to someone and all would be useful for many. There are a lot of very good suggestions here from people a lot more knowledgeable than me. But the market is so large that I feel you could pretty much do what you want and find happy homes for your ware.
My advice is to take all these comments and just follow your heart. Consider the principles of bonsai and incorporate those elements. (such as tie down holes that so many insist on yet I seldom use.) I think you have a very bright future and as your bonsai skills develop, your pots will reflect this. Bonsai is evolving and so should bonsai pots. As someone who is an on again off again potter, I am very covetous your skill and your imagination.
There was a comment about not caring much for texture and oxides from a well respected bonsai person here. I would say to respect this but don't consider it a reflection of the bonsai community at large. Oxides and texture are my two favorite techniques used in bonsai pots, but this probably comes more from the aspect of me as a potter who fully appreciates naked clay techniques.
Also, colorful pots sell well for me and it is fun to play with interactions of glazes, so I make them because they sell. They are very useful for smaller plants, flowering bonsai, tropicals and companion plants. Blue is by far the most popular color in glazed pots I have made.
The more I use them, the more I appreciate round pots and I use a lot of them. They are easier for me to make, or at least faster to make. We make some pots to sell. We make some pots to please us. And frequently those pieces that are made to please ourselves are warmly received by others, even if we deign (tongue in cheek) to break a few rules.
Love your work.........
Thank you so much, penumbra! I do love me a good oxide wash in reduction. I usually burnish my red iron oxide finishes before firing to give them a more satin surface, rather than just wiping back. I'd be happy to share techniques anytime. Always great to meet other potters. :)
 
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