Vote For What pot to repot a Caitlin Elm into?

What pot to use??

  • 1

    Votes: 13 25.0%
  • 2

    Votes: 9 17.3%
  • 3

    Votes: 7 13.5%
  • 4

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 5

    Votes: 4 7.7%
  • 6

    Votes: 19 36.5%

  • Total voters
    52

River's Edge

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I did some measuring, just width
#1-15”
#2-16”
#5-12”
#6-17”
real interesting how a photo can distort scale
And the length of the respective pots in relation to width! perhaps also appropriate to indicate actual depth.
Or as they say. What is the rest of the story?
For example is number 6 an oval or round pot?
 

mwar15

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And the length of the respective pots in relation to width! perhaps also appropriate to indicate actual depth.
Or as they say. What is the rest of the story?
For example is number 6 an oval or round pot?
I guess I’ll have to redo it all!!!! But it’s raining and all the pots are put away. I was trying to be all fancy with a lower perspective…. Lol😜. I’ll see what I can do tomorrow
 

mwar15

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If we are using a more traditional model here is from De Groot’s book with my rough dimensions. If I follow that rule, I need to make my tree smaller or my pot larger. 24” wide and 2” tall
6180590E-F655-4423-A1F7-FAA51C50BD4C.jpeg
 

River's Edge

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I guess I’ll have to reduce it all!!!! But it’s raining and all the pots are put away. I was trying to be all fancy with a lower perspective…. Lol😜. I’ll see what I can do tomorrow
Just thought it would help to reduce the confusion and misperception. No worries, pouring rain here as well! But the rain did a great job of making the snow disappear last week.
 

Shogun610

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Besides the pot sizes etc…and I said 1 or 5.. but voted 1.. can I ask what is your intentionality? 1 will be great with the blue paired with foliage on the tree especially as leave colors change, even growing season with the contrast. Where as 5 looks better with the silhouette.
 

River's Edge

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If we are using a more traditional model here is from De Groot’s book with my rough dimensions. If I follow that rule, I need to make my tree smaller or my pot larger. 24” wide and 2” tall
View attachment 416780
In his more recent publication he does a great job of explaining the variations on this rule depending on the design and style of the tree. Your relatively tall and slender tree would likely vary from the traditional formulae. This discussion is well developed and described in his " Principles of Bonsai Design" chapter 9 and Chapter 10. ( 30 pages) I think it is great reading for those deciding on tree and pot combinations.
Overall visual mass of the tree in proportion to the visual mass of the pot, also allows for variation.
 

Katie0317

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Number 5...and BTW the elm variety is "Catlin" not "caitlin," Named for John Catlin who discovered it in California in the 1950's
rockm, I bought a caitlin elm from Schley's and Jason wanted to make sure I knew it wasn't a Catlin but a caitlin. When I saw Mike's tree above I knew it wasn't a caitlin because they tend to be small and very slow growing. The leaves are miniature on a caitlin and they're evergreen here but am not sure about elsewhere. There'a also a 'contorted caitlin' but I don't know anything about them, except for seeing some. I thought @JudyB bought a contorted caitlin but it may have been someone else.

Caitlin elm: (there's not a lot about them, they're not common) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Caitlin_Elm_Grove_2015-06_121.jpg

@Mwar, 5 would be my choice but it looks way deep. I like the classic shape. Agree with the person who said gray would work with the trunk. Hope you can find time to make one, it would beat all of these.
 

rockm

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rockm, I bought a caitlin elm from Schley's and Jason wanted to make sure I knew it wasn't a Catlin but a caitlin. When I saw Mike's tree above I knew it wasn't a caitlin because they tend to be small and very slow growing. The leaves are miniature on a caitlin and they're evergreen here but am not sure about elsewhere. There'a also a 'contorted caitlin' but I don't know anything about them, except for seeing some. I thought @JudyB bought a contorted caitlin but it may have been someone else.

Caitlin elm: (there's not a lot about them, they're not common) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Caitlin_Elm_Grove_2015-06_121.jpg

@Mwar, 5 would be my choice but it looks way deep. I like the classic shape. Agree with the person who said gray would work with the trunk. Hope you can find time to make one, it would beat all of these.
They're not common because "Caitlin" is simply a misspelling by vendors/owners. ALL of the characteristics you describe are those of Catlin. Catlin was discovered and used specifically for bonsai because of those characteristics by John Catlin in the 1950's. It was used extensively for bonsai in the 1970's and 1980's because of its tiny leaves, and extreme ramification. I've had a few of them. They can semi-deciduous even in colder climates.

The forest plantning you pictured is at the Pacific Bonsai Museum. Here is Aaron Packard, curator of that facility repotting it (or one very similar)--at the museum)

It's also pictured in this thread here on B'nut:
 

rockm

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They're not common because "Caitlin" is simply a misspelling by vendors/owners. ALL of the characteristics you describe are those of Catlin. Catlin was discovered and used specifically for bonsai because of those characteristics by John Catlin in the 1950's. It was used extensively for bonsai in the 1970's and 1980's because of its tiny leaves, and extreme ramification. I've had a few of them. They can semi-deciduous even in colder climates.

The forest plantning you pictured is at the Pacific Bonsai Museum. Here is Aaron Packard, curator of that facility repotting it (or one very similar)--at the museum)

It's also pictured in this thread here on B'nut:
Also FWIW, a photo of the Catlin elm you posted is linked to another of the plaque at the museum explaining it. That photo is labeled "Caitlin Elm" even though the museum's plaque says "Catlin."
 

JudyB

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I would put this in a minimalistic oval as shallow as possible! I guess the blue #4 is the closest thing for me. I did have one of these, but it was a shohin size clump style. Was certainly a busy tree to maintain, as it put out more buds all year long than any tree I've ever seen. This is one of those trees that could actually work with a nice muted green and not a lot of trees can do that.
 

rockm

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An alternative for this tree, since it is so tall and lanky, might be a wide glazed riveted drum or even a subdued nanban pot with spotty glaze highlights.
 

Adair M

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All the pots sitting in front, look too big. I think it’s just because you are too close when snapping the photo, and that messes up the perspective.

To do it better, stand farther back, ten to fifteen feet back! And use the zoom to fill the frame. This will yield a much more realistic perspective.

Also, center the tree more in the pot. Most of the images show the tree way over to the right. You don’t want it in the absolute center, you want it “just off center”. From the side, the tree should be planted on the centerline. This will keep the roots evenly strong all around.
 
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Voted 2
I think the angles of the pot feet and sides and the tree angle to the apex flow visually for me. The pot and tree both catch my eye?
I liked #6 also but it just flows with no attention to the pot. It just blends in.
 

Katie0317

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@rockm, I'll ask Jason Schley next time I see him to explain how and why he discerns between Catlin and caitlin elms. He has a degree in botany and has been in the bonsai business for several decades. He's in a good position to talk about it. I do know that he only had a few caitlins, and made a point of telling me they weren't Catlin's but caitlins so I'll leave it to him to talk about what he knows. Aside from having a huge nursery, he's very knowledgable about bonsai.

The caitlins I saw didn't look anything like his other elms. Not just the leaves but many aspects were different. I was attracted to them because they're so small and make a good shohin.
 

Bonsai Nut

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If we are using a more traditional model here is from De Groot’s book with my rough dimensions. If I follow that rule, I need to make my tree smaller or my pot larger. 24” wide and 2” tall
He was illustrating a design theory... not stating a concrete rule. Certainly all trees in nature don't grow so that their canopy is exactly 1/2 as wide as the tree is tall :) He was specifically using a conifer to illustrate a design "in balance" using Fibonacci sequencing - not stating that all trees have to look thus :)
 
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