Is Bonsai Mirai Live Worth $300/year?

[TN_Jim]

You've obviously never done root work on a Cedar lol .....

Not a one..
No cedar here..a few of the larger nurseries in Nashville carry a few..

Are you suggesting it belongs in Neil’s —strength from roots, category?

 

[Paulpash]

Not a one..
No cedar here..a few of the larger nurseries in Nashville carry a few..

Are you suggesting it belongs in Neil’s —strength from roots, category?

Yes, along with the thorns, ie Hawthorn, Blackthorn etc. Maybe a new cautionary category... 'Go steady working x, otherwise they really sulk' is needed?

 

[sheltone]

Well some of you know a WHOLE LOT more about all that is bonsai than I do. A very simple situation? Maybe you are more intuitive, smarter or luckier than I am. Tier two at $18 a month? 2 (mediocre) 6 packs, 3 sandwiches/month or 1 latte a week. Worth EVERY penny. . I have read so many books, searched on the web for answers and learned more one MiraiLive that in all put together. I have a fine arts degree but not a horticultural/bonsai experience. I thought I was enthusiastic about Bonsai before ML - Neal ( and the guest artists) inspire me to be better and i feel I have a larger community for it. And of course he is trying to sell - he is running a business. But I think he is an evangelist about American Bonsai and wants to spread the knowledge, the passion for trees. And I for one am grateful he does.

 

[eb84327]

I am noob, and so far its been the best source of information, allows me to see materials that I do not have access to, I learn best by actually seeing something being done, as oppssed to reading "how to's". I have not experienced any buyers remorse from purchasing a tier t2 account. But of course it is not my only source, this page is great source, so is the bonsai Reddit. My bonsai club suggested it to me, many of our members have subscribed

 

[Bananaman]

I would love to see a progression thread of members using the service and how they have improved their trees and how they have applied what they have learned.

That would seem to me to be the best barometer of how the service is a benefit.

I think the best bonsai come from lots of practice, on lots of trees doing hands on work. Videos work for some people but if your not in the back yard after watching the video with the application of what you learned it’s wasted money.

 

[just.wing.it]

I would love to see a progression thread of members using the service and how they have improved their trees and how they have applied what they have learned.

That would seem to me to be the best barometer of how the service is a benefit.

I think the best bonsai come from lots of practice, on lots of trees doing hands on work. Videos work for some people but if your not in the back yard after watching the video with the application of what you learned it’s wasted money.

I'm not a member of anything except BonsaiNut.
But I watch Mirai vidoes on YouTube, when they post them.
Its definitely a good resource and Ryan is doing all he can to advance the culture of bonsai in the US.... As well as Bjorn, I see both of them in similar categories.

Both of them recommend "waiting until new growth hardens off before working the tree"....
This bit of info was very valuable to me in my first or second year of bonsai.

 

[M. Frary]

Both of them recommend "waiting until new growth hardens off before working the tree"..

What if the new growth never hardens off?
Like say an elm.
They dont quit growing the whole year so there's new growth all year.

 

[just.wing.it]

What if the new growth never hardens off?
Like say an elm.
They dont quit growing the whole year so there's new growth all year.

Then only cut back to a point where the leaves haves hardened...
Cutting off the fresh tender growing tip is not recommended....though with an elm....you can probably do almost anything and it'll be fine...weeds, I hear...
Mine certainly is a growing machine!
(And really I just said that to F with my friend Bananahammock ?)

 

[M. Frary]

Cutting off the fresh tender growing tip is not recommended.

But it's always being cut back. As soon as it gets 6 to 8 leaves I'm cutting it back to 2 for ramification. So even if the first couple sets of leaves are leathery the tender end gets cut off every time.

 

[just.wing.it]

But it's always being cut back. As soon as it gets 6 to 8 leaves I'm cutting it back to 2 for ramification. So even if the first couple sets of leaves are leathery the tender end gets cut off every time.

But you're cutting back to a lignified portion of the branch, which can more quickly build a cell wall to defend itself from infections...

Personally, I experienced this on my little Chinese Elm....R.I.P.
At the time, I thought that pinching the new growing tips in spring would give me more back budding and ramification, but after the second season of that treatment, it got an irreversible case of black spot and died...

Now, I'm not ruling out the possibility that the pinching of new tips and the black spot were unrelated.....but being who I am, I trust my gut....and I think that what I did was bad....

Also, I have no scientific evidence to prove this, but I think that potential dormant buds on a branch are likely to grow if that part of the branch is lignified before cutting, but if you cut a green shoot (aka, fresh tender growth) the branch dies back to lignified growth (aka, hardened off parts).

 

[Bananaman]

But you're cutting back to a lignified portion of the branch, which can more quickly build a cell wall to defend itself from infections...

Personally, I experienced this on my little Chinese Elm....R.I.P.
At the time, I thought that pinching the new growing tips in spring would give me more back budding and ramification, but after the second season of that treatment, it got an irreversible case of black spot and died...

Now, I'm not ruling out the possibility that the pinching of new tips and the black spot were unrelated.....but being who I am, I trust my gut....and I think that what I did was bad....

Also, I have no scientific evidence to prove this, but I think that potential dormant buds on a branch are likely to grow if that part of the branch is lignified before cutting, but if you cut a green shoot (aka, fresh tender growth) the branch dies back to lignified growth (aka, hardened off parts).

I guess you'll never know unless you get in your backyard and do some work. I hope everyone waits until all their growth hardens off before they do work it just makes my progressions seem that much more impressive!!
Cheers

 

[AlainK]

"Is Bonsai Mirai Live Worth $300/year?"

No.

It's either you're a penniless beginner and you can find very good advice free (here for instance), or you're a confirmed bonsai enthusiast, and I frankly don't think that apart from throwing stars in your eyes they won't teach you much that you don't already know.

Everybody's got the right to make a living: I'm pretty sure they're very competent people, but $300 is about 5 to 10 handmade pots here, so I prefer to learn slowly and invest in "concrete" material than paying for a guru.

Yet, "Everybody's got the right to make a living": it's very hard for people who start a business in bonsai not to "leave the key under the door", which means to get bankrupt ("laisser la clef sous la porte").

So I won't pay $300 a year, but I wish they can live up with whatever other products they offer.

 

[just.wing.it]

I guess you'll never know unless you get in your backyard and do some work. I hope everyone waits until all their growth hardens off before they do work it just makes my progressions seem that much more impressive!!
Cheers

Oh....I have, you just don't care to look.

 

[Vance Wood]

All the time you spend yanking to that virtual BS you could be spending with your trees that actually have the energy to teach you something.
Read with your trees!
Read to your trees!
While you sit with your trees and read the link between your thoughts and the visual with your trees will speak to you.

Sorry, you ought to go back and re-read what you have written here and put yourself in perspective. Your information comes as close to yanking and BS as anything I've seen in many years. I don't always agree with Ryan but at least he is making and effort to do two things: Make money and share some knowledge, neither of which is a bad thing. You don't have to agree, you don't have to subscribe to his program, but you don't have one either do you, that we could subscrbe to if we chose? Some people need the inspiration to work their trees, your posts go a long way in discouraging that. Most people that really need these programs and the levels of access don't need you or me telling them they are yanking off in doing their bonsai, or what ever else we think we have to offer.

 

[coh]

I would love to see a progression thread of members using the service and how they have improved their trees and how they have applied what they have learned.

That would seem to me to be the best barometer of how the service is a benefit.

I think the best bonsai come from lots of practice, on lots of trees doing hands on work. Videos work for some people but if your not in the back yard after watching the video with the application of what you learned it’s wasted money.

Well, obviously you have to do the work. I don't think anyone is claiming that simply watching the videos will turn someone into a master.

As for your challenge to mirai users - you typically don't post trees until they are well along. That maple where you merged 3 trees together, you were working on that for about 5 years before posting the images, right? But you expect people who've been using the mirai service for a year or less, to be posting "proof" that the service is worth it.

No one owes you (or anyone else) any "proof" that the service is worthwhile.

For people who are interested in what Ryan has to offer but don't want to spend any money, check out the free videos. If you like what you see, subscribe. In fact, you can subscribe for a month and watch all of the videos and then cancel your susbscription. For those who can't afford to spend even the cost of a single month, then it's not for you. Simple.

 

[Bananaman]

Oh....I have, you just don't care to look.

Hmmmm... I guess it wasn’t noteworthy???

 

[KingJades]

I'm a Tier 2, and I love it. His videos provide a great foundation for someone who wants to take bonsai seriously.

Interning at the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum, his videos provide a lot of great advice on caring for and styling so many species. I can see how at least one skilled person in the world suggests working with these common trees. It makes it just a little bit easier and less intimidating when a new species shows up on my work bench, since I've seen someone actually perform a good chunk of work on those trees before and I "get" a lot of the goals, habits, and pitfalls of those species. That exposure is somewhat priceless.

Just last week I worked on a small clean up and re-design on a bougainvillea originally owned and trained by Wu Yee-sun, even featured in his famous book Man Lung Penjing, and I incorporated some of the elements from the Juan Andrade bougainvillea video. The wonderful, curvy motions shown there contribute well to the original penjing design that was laid out and I was able to build upon that.

Peter Warren's videos on Azalea were top-notch and taught me a lot. It also helped me to be prepared for working directly with him and ask targeted questions to up my azalea game for when I was working with the collection during his visit. His videos and the personal advice during his visit will help to increase the quality of our azaleas.

Worth every penny in my opinion.

 

[Vance Wood]

Any one who thinks they have nothing left to learn should leave bonsai, they'll just drag everybody else down. If you realize you can still learn something then go to school or what ever, but don't pillory anyone else who seeks to improve themselves.

 

[just.wing.it]

Hmmmm... I guess it wasn’t noteworthy???

Most likely.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

Any one who thinks they have nothing left to learn should leave bonsai, they'll just drag everybody else down. If you realize you can still learn something then go to school or what ever, but don't pillory anyone else who seeks to improve themselves.

Amen Vance! My thoughts exactly.