The Discussion Forum v. Blogs

[Smoke]

Recently, it has been said that the decline of the discussion forum has been due to blogs and facebook. Personaly, I despise facebook, never had it, never will. I do like blogs. I was a die hard discussion forum guy. Been here since 1996 posting my work over three forums. The defunct bonsaiPage (RIP), bonsaiTalk (RIP) and bonsaiNut. Posting to this site lately has become very difficult to do and will surly be a final nail in the coffin if not fixed soon. I was content on discussion forum for many years. Smart asses come and go, and I can live with that, but the last 3 years has seen a steady rise in the amount of newbies that are really rude and have no sense of humor nor respect.

I started by blog two years ago Nov. It was not the first, I have several floating out there. Every now and then I will come across one doing a google search for something. I have forgotton the passwords and the URL's so they are here for good. Good news is, theres not much on them because I was content with forums.

About two years ago I really got a belly full. It seemed that you couldn't post anything without a wet behind the ears, bench with out a bonsai loser wanting to argue his year of crap sticks in pots with my decades old display earning cash awards bonsai. So, dial up Wordpress and transfer all the work to one easily accessable place.

It has been said that discussion forums are nothing more than a place for a blogger to post his address. I have only posted my link here at bonsaiNut and no place else. In two years I have had 78,160 views at my blog. 3,196 have come from bonsaiNut or 4%. Believe it or not I get the largest view days when I get in a super heated discussion at bonsaiNut. It seems that more people see my link because my name is in front of them more. Everyone likes a car crash.

While my blog has America as its number one viewer, Austrailia, Canada, UK, Spain, Netherlands, Romania, Russia and the Ukraine are the most avid viewers in that order. That top eight viewing countries of my work total 17,085 or 22% of the total viewers over the last two years. This is in countries that don't know me from Adam. Reddit has given me my largest views with almost a 1000 in one day when I posted about grow stones.

My blog has some interesting things that many do not. I have many articles and pictures on how to makes a bonsai stand. I have galleries of tokonoma displays in a contest. Galleries of some of the greatest trees on display by clubs. A scroll resourse with signatures of Japanese artists with samples of work. I also have a huge archive of pictures of tree progressions that many people look at day after day. I have more people viewing the blog now with no new content for 6 months while my wife battled cancer than I did the whole year before. Contrary to popular belief, I don't need the interaction about my work. Based on the views, I know people are looking at it and enjoying it or they wouldn't keep coming back. I don't need a pat on the back or instruction on what to do with a piece of material so a discussion forum for me is entertainment. I really love to read the fights. They entertain me. Bonsai instruction, not so much. There are only a few that are capable of really putting together photo documentation of a tree over many years, have the knowledge to talk about it and the camera to shoot it. Nearly all those folks are gone. Most of the people posting today have no idea of the good ole days and what could be read here 24/7/365. Today, its just help me with my tree, Please! Or help me keep this thing alive. Or...my favorite, I did bonsai 5 years ago and then quit ...but now I have started again so that makes me a master.

People are hungry for good quality content, and that includes good quality pictures, in focus and the proper direction. People like close ups and the reasons why you did what you did. people like to see what the cause and effect is with the work performed and I do that as often as possible. believe it or not I have many pictures this year I have not posted because I will post them all together when the weather cools down. I like to see progression. I assume everyone else does also. Posting a picture every week is not a progression. Pavel Slovak did great progression because they were photo's over many years to a finished tree. That is unique. A progression takes place over many years so that the viewer can get a sense of what seasons do in a glance rather than looking at 365 pictures that could be used in a stop motion cartoon.

Hey,....wait a minute, I just may have come up with something.

Now that I have gotton that off my chest, why do you guys come here.

What would one like to see that you don't get now.

 

[sorce]

Everyone loves a good progression. Its great to see good trees, but seeing how they got there is helpful, hopeful, and just amazing most of the time.

I come to get info, see what works, help newbiers than me when I can, fights, and read the Vance Quotes!

I like to know I am not the only crazy one!


Would love to see more trees. More crazy experiments.


Sorce

 

[edprocoat]

Al I come here for the exchange of verbiage. I look forward to the guys who post useful knowledge and/or techniques and I enjoy the pictures, even the bad ones except for the sideways ones. I have become comfortable with many of the people here and feel if I ever met them I could have a friendly discussion and possibly become friends with them. I have my favorites I look for, some that enrage me and others that engage me. I look forward to posts by Rob, Victrinia and her hubby, SawgrASS, BVF, Vance, Bill and that weird old guy who wears the thong among a few others. Plus the fact that its an American Bonsai forum.

ed

 

[QuintinBonsai]

Blogs are great and all, but there's one major thing I dislike about them, and that is the lack of open discussion. I mean, they're great for telling your personal story, your progression, and knowledge that has been gained. You're only contribution to the blog is you, and you alone. There will be a few commenters here, and there giving advice and whatnot, but it's a lonely dancefloor.

"Hey I'm Joe Shmoe. Check out my blog." Captivate me, Joe. Make me interested in coming here.

I don't mean to insult anyone who chooses to create a one, but, I seem to lean towards discussion forums a lot more. More views on the subject matter, and more various responses. Besides, I enjoy seeing what the multitude of bonsainuts are talking about each day. What I don't like about this place is the arguing. Too many people butting heads, insulting others, and the negative drama gives the forum(this forum)a level of disrespect. Isn't bonsai supposed to be a tranquil, peaceful, and naturalistic hobby?

Do the Japanese sit around bickering about trees, or is this just an American thing?

 

[KennedyMarx]

Progressions are probably the sweetest thing when available, but generally I come here just for the discussions about bonsai. I try to ignore the squabbling. The signal to noise ratio is debatable. I like blogs, but they don't seem as personal as a discussion forum. It's nice to have a conversation and blogs feel very one direction. Still, a lot of the conversations on the forums seem to be questions with somewhat obvious answers, not that I haven't asked any stupid questions. I think you need to consider the fact that a lot of people on forums don't have anyone around to talk bonsai with. Hell, I drive about two hours for my club meetings just for some bonsai interaction.

 

[Wee]

I use the search function more than anything else when I'm really needing info....When I post it's mostly stuff I'm working on bonsai related but not necessarily trees. I guess for me the Nut is my facebook, because I just don't do facebook. I have 2 blogs one is race kart related but since we stopped racing I do not update it anymore, the other is a hobby blog where I keep track of all the fun stuff going on in my life.

I only have one bonsai blog that I kinda follow....I check it 2 or 3 times a month, that is Adam Lavigne's blog.

Smoke I have checked yours a few times and It sounds like I need to give it another try.

Brian

 

[jkd2572]

I have over 400 bonsai blogs that automatically update on my blog reader app. Some are not even in English. I love reading them and pics tell a 1000 words when not in my language, but I come here for the discussion. I get to ask questions and follow topics I'm interested in.

 

[coh]

I am not a big fan of facebook and was reluctant to join for a long time. That said...the bonsai community there has become pretty active. I'm a member of several groups and although the format isn't as nice as it is in a forum, there are plenty of good discussions and lots of pics. I also don't see all that much arguing, name calling, etc. Maybe because most use their real names? And of course there's the bonsai classifieds which seem to be pretty successful, despite a recent attempt by a bnut member to mess things up.

As for blogs - I've seen some pretty good discussions there. Remember the post by Michael Hagedorn about turface? That led to a lengthy discussion in the comments section and some good information was exchanged. Again, though, the format isn't as nice as a forum.

Finally, regarding bonsai nut and other forums...I mainly come for day-to-day bonsai discussion. Since I'm pretty new at this (less than 4 years) and haven't lived in the Rochester area for all that long, I don't know too many people locally. I see other bonsai people at the monthly club meetings and that's pretty much it. So this place provides my daily "fix".

 

[jk_lewis]

What little privacy is left for us with the development of the WWW totally disappears thru Facebook, so I have not, do not, and will not sign up.

Blogs are great and all, but there's one major thing I dislike about them, and that is the lack of open discussion. I mean, they're great for telling your personal story, your progression, and knowledge that has been gained.

They're also good for people with galloping egos. I just don't have the time to read so much blather. The pics are fine, but there are so few fine pics.

I have a couple of bonsai friends in this area for face-to-face bonsai talk (the BEST kind!), a bonsai club in the area, and BN and the IBC, which are all I can or want to cope with on line.

 

[BrianBay9]

I have been on this and other forums (fora?) for a long time, and like the discussions and the variety. Used to be more variety, with more experienced people. I dread the thought of trying to keep track of 400+ blogs like some do. The forums used to concentrate all that in one place, and then you could go to another site to learn more if you wanted. If the forum format dies, are you really prepared to continually search for thousands of bonsai blogs? I'm old and technologically challenged. That might be the end of my on-line participation.

Brian

 

[wlambeth]

Why I visit BNUT

I come for the information.
As you correctly noted good, useful information has been in decline.
I understand people who are new to Bonsai have questions and seek knowledge, but I wish they would approach the process of learning by observing, doing their homework (reading every piece of literature out there, in books, blogs, etc.). By doing so, they will have something useful to contribute to the discussion.
I absolutely want to peel my skin off when I see a post saying please help me with my tree and they don't post pictures of the tree in question. There are no gods here. Without the picture(s) your request for help is a waste of space.
Personally, I post very few pictures or share progressions of my trees. This is because I don't feel any are quality enough to be posted. Maybe in another 20 years they may be ready, but by then I will have passed, so who cares.
This internet thing has failed in its promise to promote and push a growth in knowledge. It has become too commercialized. Any good source of knowledge comes with a hefty annual or monthly fee. What a shame.

 

[fourteener]

I come here to pick up tidbits of information that will move things along in my practice of Bonsai. It is a delicate balance of helping people who are new and being a place to help people further along. I do grow tired of people asking questions without trying to figure anything out on their own. I grow tired of all the attention paid to really lame stuff and no interaction about good trees(who decides the good trees...I know!! Answer: the ones no one ever talks about).

I blog because I don't have to worry about foolish comments on my blog or dealing with questions that are in fact dumb!!(or at least demonstrate a complete lack of any foundational knowledge about horticulture or design).

I wish there was a portion of a site like this that could be dedicated to people taking this seriously, but I know that creates problems of it's own as well.

People who are new...please do your own reading and enter into questions with at least some baseline of knowledge. Learning from others is good, but I learned a lot from reading several books over and over and over again.

 

[coh]

People who are new...please do your own reading and enter into questions with at least some baseline of knowledge. Learning from others is good, but I learned a lot from reading several books over and over and over again.

Unfortunately, that is not the way it works these days, and I think the internet is partly responsible. People are now used to going on-line and getting "information" instantly, without much if any effort. So it only makes sense that they would join a bonsai forum and jump right into asking questions without doing even the most basic research.

I hate to make generalizations, but that seems to be a characteristic of the younger generations in particular. My wife has been a college professor for about 20 years now, and she and her colleagues have seen this change in the students over the years. They are now very "me centered", want to be catered to, want everything now- same type of behavior that is commonly displayed by newcomers to the forum.

 

[jeanluc83]

People who are new...please do your own reading and enter into questions with at least some baseline of knowledge. Learning from others is good, but I learned a lot from reading several books over and over and over again.

The problem I see is that there is so much information out there that it contradictory, outdated or just wrong. It is very difficult for someone just starting out to sort through it all. Do a search for "what is the best substrate" and tell me that your head isn't spinning after five minutes of reading.

I think forums and blogs each have their place. I view blogs as being static and forums dynamic. As a beginner I don't have the body of knowledge to carry a blog so I participate in forums when I can.

 

[edprocoat]

I see posts in this thread where people are complaining about others asking questions, and while I enjoy the free and open exchange of ideas I feel due diligence should be practiced by those offering the advice, especially those offering advise they regurgitated from posts they read here. Its amazing to me that the person who last week was asking help for their dying Ficus plant, which is later ID'd in the thread as a Fukien tea, this week has a blog and feels comfortable enough to tell another on this forum, chop it all the way down, remove 60% of the roots and it will be fine. Telling a beginner who is trying to figure out how to water and feed his plant to "graft a new top" "carve it down to the live vein" why would a NEWBIE want info on defoliating his plant when he having a hard time keeping the leaves on it as it is?

I won't name names but I have seen 3 posts here recently that the people did not even know the name of the plant they bought, within a week or two were giving advise here and blogging online while qualifying it with statements like " I have kept Bonsai for 30 years and this is how its done."

ed

 

[Neli]

I post every day on Face Book....I like it a lot there...Have some good friends...some Bnutters also...
I managed to make Vance join FB....big achievement...he he he!

 

[jk_lewis]

The problem I see is that there is so much information out there that it contradictory, outdated or just wrong.

Just like the answers you get here.

 

[A Random User]

second that !!!

 

[A Random User]

I post every day on Face Book....I like it a lot there...Have some good friends...some Bnutters also...
I managed to make Vance join FB....big achievement...he he he!

Neli, I would love to be your friend on Face Book !

 

[A Random User]

Perhaps if this site was more like Face Book it would be a better place !
Instead of a clinical, or institutionalized feel with no view. It's kinda like
being in prison. The colors are drab, there is no sense of feeling as one
belongs, no personal effects, no family pics, nothing... just people who
want to argue with you !