THUJA OCCIDENTALIS #2

MACH5

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Super, thanks for the answer. I meant lakeshore in a geographical sense, but Lakeshore/Aaron does have some of the best thujas around ;)

Here is the oldest recorded thuja in Québec, from way north, estimated to be between around 1000 years old. It is from a very dry and cold lakeshore (an island, actually).View attachment 263820View attachment 263821

LOL thanks for clarifying! When you mentioned lakeshore my head went immediately to Aaron Khalid who is a member here as well.

Those are some amazing trees! At the US National last year I saw some really great thujas and I believe many from Canada. I am exploring this species for bonsai and their true potential. Being a native tree, its horticultural needs become much easier to manage.

It is interesting you mention that the lakeshore area is very dry as I know they also love water. I assume they are quite adaptable?
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I know the climate along the shores of Lake Michigan, from both sides. Michigan, & Illinois-Wisconsin. We get plentiful rain most of the year, but especially in July & August we can get a 6 week drought, sometimes followed by a similar drought in late September thru October. The ground can get very dry.

But, especially away from large cities, during these droughts, there is still heavy dew and or fog at night. On the farm in Michigan (only 9 miles from Lake Michigan) during the short drought this year, every night the dew and fog were heavy enough that foliage was dripping wet every morning and stayed wet until about 10 am. Most trees, from blueberries to Thuja can absorb water through their foliage. So while dry, there is daily moisture. Even though the soil seems bone dry.

Sergio, magnificent tree, looking forward to seeing the results.

I have 2 Thuja myself. I am still just learning how to work with them. But I think they have a lot of potential.
 

MACH5

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Thanks Leo! Have fun with yours. They are great and take to bonsai cultivation with no issues although they can also be a lot of work specially if you want to keep pads neat and nicely defined. Sometimes foliage can grow in a vertical orientation! :mad:
 

Lazylightningny

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I agree. Many are starting to pop up at major exhibitions. When it comes to thujas, I think the Canadians are leading the pack. Some spectacular trees are coming from there. In fact, last year at the 6th US National, a huge thuja from the Montreal Botanic Garden took one of the top awards. The tree pictured below.

View attachment 263798

Photo courtesy Bill Valavanis.
Wow, that's a stunning tree. I'm sure yours will be no less stunning.
 
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Incredible tree @MACH5. Here's another fantastic Thuja that now belongs to the Montreal Botanical Gardens maintained by Eric Auger, who maintains also the tree that won at the National last year. The tree originally belonged to David Johnson, former president of the Toronto Bonsai Society, who donated it to the Montreal Botanical Gardens.
m9aWO1rvTfGjWJtg6Hkg6g.jpg
 

MACH5

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Incredible tree @MACH5. Here's another fantastic Thuja that now belongs to the Montreal Botanical Gardens maintained by Eric Auger, who maintains also the tree that won at the National last year. The tree originally belonged to David Johnson, former president of the Toronto Bonsai Society, who donated it to the Montreal Botanical Gardens.
View attachment 263862


Thank you Rafael for sharing. Awesome tree! They seem to rival some of the other collected North American species. Most notably those from the West coast. Their deadwood can be spectacular!

This is turning into an all thuja thread. Love it!
 

Waltron

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Very nice specimen Mach. Great thread, some epic thuja enthujists here. I agree it is becoming a main stream species with good reason. We had John wall ironically from Tennessee, who styled a 600 year old thuja that won at the national show a few years back, Do a styling demonstration on a 400 yr old collected thuja. Mr Spinniken here is probably the most impressive collector I know of. I only have some little ones. I’m heading up to the lake this weekend to do some salmon fishin and thuja hunting.
 

Cosmos

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LOL thanks for clarifying! When you mentioned lakeshore my head went immediately to Aaron Khalid who is a member here as well.

Those are some amazing trees! At the US National last year I saw some really great thujas and I believe many from Canada. I am exploring this species for bonsai and their true potential. Being a native tree, its horticultural needs become much easier to manage.

It is interesting you mention that the lakeshore area is very dry as I know they also love water. I assume they are quite adaptable?

LOL thanks for clarifying! When you mentioned lakeshore my head went immediately to Aaron Khalid who is a member here as well.

Those are some amazing trees! At the US National last year I saw some really great thujas and I believe many from Canada. I am exploring this species for bonsai and their true potential. Being a native tree, its horticultural needs become much easier to manage.

It is interesting you mention that the lakeshore area is very dry as I know they also love water. I assume they are quite adaptable?

***WARNING – GEEKERY AHEAD***

Alright guys, so I found a dendrology PhD thesis written in 1989 by a researcher here in Québec about a groupe of old thujas all from the same small area (a lake called "lac Duparquet"). The link is here if you want to dust off your high school French ;)

His main conclusions are as follows:

- The Abitibi region is south of James Bay, about 6-8 hours north of Montréal. It’s a heavily forested region with harsh climate (on average, only 64 consecutive frost free days per year). Very strong winds, heavy snow, you name it.
- Thujas grow in that region, albeit not in significant numbers (the northern limit for that species is 300 km north though of the lake, though). Most thujas in that region as in elsewhere live in moist organic soil, near lakes or on the shore directly
- The sample of the trees studied comprised 43 trees that are older than 500 years. Of these, only 5 came from moist sites (the "moist thujas"), and of these 5, the oldest stands at 583. The 38 others all came from dry sites (the oldest at the time of study was 908 years). The study mostly focuses on the "dry" thujas, most of which live on islands on the lake.

- These dry thuyas grow on islands without competition, on very dry rocky surfaces with very fast drainage, a steep inclination and in full sun. The researcher noticed that most of the old ones were growing facing the west (only one 500+ y.o. tree facing East). They get most of their water from spring and early summer rains, since the soil is frozen about 8-9 months a year.
- They have no real pests and fungal issues are not a climate in dry locations where they grow.
- Other traits of the island thuyas were low height, dead apical regions, very asymetrical growth, barkless portions of the trunk. Kind of the standard old yamadori stuff. He notices that the living cambial region of these trees is usually facing inland, so not towards the lake and the strong winds.
- The island thuyas, even the ones above 800 years, continue to produce cones and seeds.
- The research hypothesizes that the dry substrate they grow in severay limit the amount of foliage and cambial tissue the trees can produce each year, and that successive loss of apices allows the tree to reduce its need to transport water to the top of the tree, which furthers reduces the amount of water it needs to live. The author states many time that the 500+ y.o. thujas "maintain a very fine balance between photosynthetic and non-photosynthetic tissue"
- One big difference between the dry and the moist thujas was that the trunks of the moist ones tended to hollow out over time, whereas the dry ones would lose parts or most of their trunk, but they would rarely become hollow.

- The researcher actually draws amazing conclusions, because he says the core extracts from these dry thuyas reveal a ton of information on climate, and they can cross-referene information about very cold and harsh periods. The growth ring for 1440-1500, for example, signifies that the temperatures of that period got markedly colder, and this can be correlated with what other dendrologists have observed in the core of old trees in California.
- The author states that the yearly growth patterns on thujas (from the dendrological side of things) indicates that they like a lot of water in the spring, and that when July is very hot, growth is reduced. Foliage growth is over at the end of June in most years.
 

Nybonsai12

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damn Serg! Another show stopper!!!!
 

MACH5

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***WARNING – GEEKERY AHEAD***

Alright guys, so I found a dendrology PhD thesis written in 1989 by a researcher here in Québec about a groupe of old thujas all from the same small area (a lake called "lac Duparquet"). The link is here if you want to dust off your high school French ;)

His main conclusions are as follows:

- The Abitibi region is south of James Bay, about 6-8 hours north of Montréal. It’s a heavily forested region with harsh climate (on average, only 64 consecutive frost free days per year). Very strong winds, heavy snow, you name it.
- Thujas grow in that region, albeit not in significant numbers (the northern limit for that species is 300 km north though of the lake, though). Most thujas in that region as in elsewhere live in moist organic soil, near lakes or on the shore directly
- The sample of the trees studied comprised 43 trees that are older than 500 years. Of these, only 5 came from moist sites (the "moist thujas"), and of these 5, the oldest stands at 583. The 38 others all came from dry sites (the oldest at the time of study was 908 years). The study mostly focuses on the "dry" thujas, most of which live on islands on the lake.

- These dry thuyas grow on islands without competition, on very dry rocky surfaces with very fast drainage, a steep inclination and in full sun. The researcher noticed that most of the old ones were growing facing the west (only one 500+ y.o. tree facing East). They get most of their water from spring and early summer rains, since the soil is frozen about 8-9 months a year.
- They have no real pests and fungal issues are not a climate in dry locations where they grow.
- Other traits of the island thuyas were low height, dead apical regions, very asymetrical growth, barkless portions of the trunk. Kind of the standard old yamadori stuff. He notices that the living cambial region of these trees is usually facing inland, so not towards the lake and the strong winds.
- The island thuyas, even the ones above 800 years, continue to produce cones and seeds.
- The research hypothesizes that the dry substrate they grow in severay limit the amount of foliage and cambial tissue the trees can produce each year, and that successive loss of apices allows the tree to reduce its need to transport water to the top of the tree, which furthers reduces the amount of water it needs to live. The author states many time that the 500+ y.o. thujas "maintain a very fine balance between photosynthetic and non-photosynthetic tissue"
- One big difference between the dry and the moist thujas was that the trunks of the moist ones tended to hollow out over time, whereas the dry ones would lose parts or most of their trunk, but they would rarely become hollow.

- The researcher actually draws amazing conclusions, because he says the core extracts from these dry thuyas reveal a ton of information on climate, and they can cross-referene information about very cold and harsh periods. The growth ring for 1440-1500, for example, signifies that the temperatures of that period got markedly colder, and this can be correlated with what other dendrologists have observed in the core of old trees in California.
- The author states that the yearly growth patterns on thujas (from the dendrological side of things) indicates that they like a lot of water in the spring, and that when July is very hot, growth is reduced. Foliage growth is over at the end of June in most years.

Super interesting!! Thank you for sharing.
 

MACH5

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damn Serg! Another show stopper!!!!


Thanks Bri! This is one I have been excited to work on but have not been able to do so for one reason or another. Lots and lots of secondary branches to choose from. In the meantime, it has been growing strongly that will help with the eventual redesign work.
 

elroy

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In Ontario the oldest Thujas are found on cliff edges of the Niagara escarpment. Research article here https://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/10.1139/B91-206

Elroy

***WARNING – GEEKERY AHEAD***

Alright guys, so I found a dendrology PhD thesis written in 1989 by a researcher here in Québec about a groupe of old thujas all from the same small area (a lake called "lac Duparquet"). The link is here if you want to dust off your high school French ;)

His main conclusions are as follows:

- The Abitibi region is south of James Bay, about 6-8 hours north of Montréal. It’s a heavily forested region with harsh climate (on average, only 64 consecutive frost free days per year). Very strong winds, heavy snow, you name it.
- Thujas grow in that region, albeit not in significant numbers (the northern limit for that species is 300 km north though of the lake, though). Most thujas in that region as in elsewhere live in moist organic soil, near lakes or on the shore directly
- The sample of the trees studied comprised 43 trees that are older than 500 years. Of these, only 5 came from moist sites (the "moist thujas"), and of these 5, the oldest stands at 583. The 38 others all came from dry sites (the oldest at the time of study was 908 years). The study mostly focuses on the "dry" thujas, most of which live on islands on the lake.

- These dry thuyas grow on islands without competition, on very dry rocky surfaces with very fast drainage, a steep inclination and in full sun. The researcher noticed that most of the old ones were growing facing the west (only one 500+ y.o. tree facing East). They get most of their water from spring and early summer rains, since the soil is frozen about 8-9 months a year.
- They have no real pests and fungal issues are not a climate in dry locations where they grow.
- Other traits of the island thuyas were low height, dead apical regions, very asymetrical growth, barkless portions of the trunk. Kind of the standard old yamadori stuff. He notices that the living cambial region of these trees is usually facing inland, so not towards the lake and the strong winds.
- The island thuyas, even the ones above 800 years, continue to produce cones and seeds.
- The research hypothesizes that the dry substrate they grow in severay limit the amount of foliage and cambial tissue the trees can produce each year, and that successive loss of apices allows the tree to reduce its need to transport water to the top of the tree, which furthers reduces the amount of water it needs to live. The author states many time that the 500+ y.o. thujas "maintain a very fine balance between photosynthetic and non-photosynthetic tissue"
- One big difference between the dry and the moist thujas was that the trunks of the moist ones tended to hollow out over time, whereas the dry ones would lose parts or most of their trunk, but they would rarely become hollow.

- The researcher actually draws amazing conclusions, because he says the core extracts from these dry thuyas reveal a ton of information on climate, and they can cross-referene information about very cold and harsh periods. The growth ring for 1440-1500, for example, signifies that the temperatures of that period got markedly colder, and this can be correlated with what other dendrologists have observed in the core of old trees in California.
- The author states that the yearly growth patterns on thujas (from the dendrological side of things) indicates that they like a lot of water in the spring, and that when July is very hot, growth is reduced. Foliage growth is over at the end of June in most years.
 

Waltron

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Going off the random memory here, but a while back we had some wild guy come to our club who was obsessed with grafting and witches brooms and new unique cultivars and how he uses led lights and quantum physics lol to make these grafts take, but anyway I remember him mentioning going on a trip up in northern Michigan where they found and ancient forest of stunted thuja down in a weird place you have to rope int or hole or something but I’m pretty sure they said they dated one to 8000 years old. Could be wrong here but I thought I remember them saying that ..like it’s been recently observed to be like 10 times the age they thought.
 

Cosmos

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