Thuja occidentalis from stock - cold tolerance

[HorseloverFat]

I like my fellow Canadian Nigel . And I admit I am not aware what his Thuja pruning technique is . I admire his carefree exploratory learning attitude . And willingness to put it all on YouTube . But I have seen him ignore sound proven bonsai basics . There is nothing wrong with learning and expanding trying new things . But a baseline of sound understanding . In basic principles is necessary . I may be biased to a original teacher of mine . But I much prefer David Easterbrook . As a wealth of knowledge of north east trees . The best info on thuja that I am aware of is The late Nick Lenz book bonsai from the wild . Unfortunately it is out of print . And prices are getting crazy . ( mine was loaned and never returned ) Again there is a lot of knowledge on Hinoki cypress that transfer s to thuja .

You missunderstand!!

(nigel) Just basic pinching technique, like we're talking about.
.. about Nigel.. he does not push his methods or learning AT ALL. I do NOT use his material for reference..

EXCEPT.. the basic fact that he taught me that I could treat/ramify thuja foliage much like juniper.

He does not use wire, which seems..... ill-advised.

I can not watch his videos anymore, even though I respect EVERY horticultural artist's work.

David Easterbrook and Nick Lenz are ACTUAL Bonsai Practitioners!!

 

[Frozentreehugger]

You missunderstand!!

(nigel) Just basic pinching technique, like we're talking about.
.. about Nigel.. he does not push his methods or learning AT ALL. I do NOT use his material for reference..

EXCEPT.. the basic fact that he taught me that I could treat/ramify thuja foliage much like juniper.

He does not use wire, which seems..... ill-advised.

I can not watch his videos anymore, even though I respect EVERY horticultural artist's work.

David Easterbrook and Nick Lenz are ACTUAL Bonsai Practitioners!!

He is a practitioner . And I nice guy . Like I said I admire him for what he is trying to do . If his stuff helps great .

 

[HorseloverFat]

Op, if you end up falling in love with Thuja, as I, and others, have, you should consider going out collecting...

They are a dime a dozen... But in places where there are THOUSANDS... You can find material relatively easy.




I am going to be collecting a larger amount of lil, beefy, thuja "trail clearer" specimens to develop into bonsai/pre-bonsai material, this year. I just dug 2 yesterday. My collection window is just BARELY open currently.

The thuja I collect THIS year, will be ready for sale in 2025.

 

[NeyensNeuro]

Op, if you end up falling in love with Thuja, as I, and others, have, you should consider going out collecting...

They are a dime a dozen... But in places where there are THOUSANDS... You can find material relatively easy.

View attachment 479172


I am going to be collecting a larger amount of lil, beefy, thuja "trail clearer" specimens to develop into bonsai/pre-bonsai material, this year. I just dug 2 yesterday. My collection window is just BARELY open currently.

The thuja I collect THIS year, will be ready for sale in 2025.

I'm definitely intrigued by the idea of collecting!

 

[HorseloverFat]

I'm definitely intrigued by the idea of collecting!

Get right down in there, when considering a tree... Pull back all the moss, leaves, dead grass.... Check it out.

See if the trunk is of a good thickness (a bit thinner than your aspirations for whatever your vision is).. and large sections (anywhere from 5-8" in my opinion ((could change depending on goal size and species))) of straight trunk in the "useable" section is normally a turn-off, personally.

Then give it a shove, hard if you need to... See if you can get it to "give"..or wiggle, even in the slightest.

If it doesn't budge, walk away!

You don't need the heartache.

 

[HorseloverFat]

The tree I pictured was growing On/in a "nurse log"... And had about 6-8" of "tree" removed prior to collection...

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I'm definitely intrigued by the idea of collecting!

As I said earlier considering your location . At the foot of the Rockies . You have access to what us easterners only dream of . Get involved in the bonsai community clubs etcetera. in your area . As a fellow zone 4 idiot . Some possibilities you may not have thought of . Think where the winter wind can blow hard over flat frozen surface . Then. Meet trees . Especially slightly elevated trees . In the east this normally is the shore or islands . And a frozen lake . But the prairies . I’m sure offers . Lots of opportunity. Look for trees in small rock pockets . Do not overlook urban and garden planting opportunities. As for species . There is a western thuja that is collected . But there are a wealth of other material . Spruce . Pine . Fir . Oak . Elm maple . ( Amur maple ) very cold tolerant and heavily planted in Canada . This may sound stupid but . When you find what should be a good area . Look carefully . And thoroughly . Then take a rest and do it again . A lot of good trees are found the second time .

 

[HorseloverFat]

As I said earlier considering your location . At the foot of the Rockies . You have access to what us easterners only dream of . Get involved in the bonsai community clubs etcetera. in your area . As a fellow zone 4 idiot . Some possibilities you may not have thought of . Think where the winter wind can blow hard over flat frozen surface . Then. Meet trees . Especially slightly elevated trees . In the east this normally is the shore or islands . And a frozen lake . But the prairies . I’m sure offers . Lots of opportunity. Look for trees in small rock pockets . Do not overlook urban and garden planting opportunities. As for species . There is a western thuja that is collected . But there are a wealth of other material . Spruce . Pine . Fir . Oak . Elm maple . ( Amur maple ) very cold tolerant and heavily planted in Canada . This may sound stupid but . When you find what should be a good area . Look carefully . And thoroughly . Then take a rest and do it again . A lot of good trees are found the second time .

I wish Amur was heavily planted here... By others than just me!



I'd have game wardens with dual side-arms and kevlar at my door for planting Amurs in the wild, here.. or worse.. SELLING in a traditional "greenhouse" setting.

 

[NeyensNeuro]

As I said earlier considering your location . At the foot of the Rockies . You have access to what us easterners only dream of . Get involved in the bonsai community clubs etcetera. in your area . As a fellow zone 4 idiot . Some possibilities you may not have thought of . Think where the winter wind can blow hard over flat frozen surface . Then. Meet trees . Especially slightly elevated trees . In the east this normally is the shore or islands . And a frozen lake . But the prairies . I’m sure offers . Lots of opportunity. Look for trees in small rock pockets . Do not overlook urban and garden planting opportunities. As for species . There is a western thuja that is collected . But there are a wealth of other material . Spruce . Pine . Fir . Oak . Elm maple . ( Amur maple ) very cold tolerant and heavily planted in Canada . This may sound stupid but . When you find what should be a good area . Look carefully . And thoroughly . Then take a rest and do it again . A lot of good trees are found the second time .

In terms of collecting, I haven't done much research yet.

When is the best time to collect? Or rather, when should I avoid?

I wrap the root ball in a wet towel and get into a pot asap?

Do I avoid styling for a full year?

 

[Frozentreehugger]

In terms of collecting, I haven't done much research yet.

When is the best time to collect? Or rather, when should I avoid?

I wrap the root ball in a wet towel and get into a pot asap?

Do I avoid styling for a full year?

You collect trees in early spring just as buds swell . Idea being the tree will bud out and then create new roots to support itself. . How much you can cut the roots back varies with species . Normally conifers need as many small feeder roots as you can get . Normal practice is pot it up in a box or large container in coarse soil . Protect from wind and heavy sun . As the tree recovers and grows you introduce it to more sun . There is no styling done . Until tree recovers and is healthy , there is no time line on this , young vigorous tree is fast . Old conifer is slow . Beware of over watering the tree as it recovers . Collecting trees from the wild is not as some think a faster way to make bonsai . It is a route to get better material with natural characteristic age . Be prepared you will have trees die . You scout and find trees at other times . Sone people collect in the fall as a tree naturally grows . Tissue in the fall . And it’s less hot and demanding on the roots for moisture . I do not do this in zone 4 thinking is spring gets max time before the first tough winter , fall would be fine if you have a greenhouse to protect the tree first winter . There is a lot more to be said on the subject . But that’s a start

 

[HorseloverFat]

You collect trees in early spring just as buds swell . Idea being the tree will bud out and then create new roots to support itself. . How much you can cut the roots back varies with species . Normally conifers need as many small feeder roots as you can get . Normal practice is pot it up in a box or large container in coarse soil . Protect from wind and heavy sun . As the tree recovers and grows you introduce it to more sun . There is no styling done . Until tree recovers and is healthy , there is no time line on this , young vigorous tree is fast . Old conifer is slow . Beware of over watering the tree as it recovers . Collecting trees from the wild is not as some think a faster way to make bonsai . It is a route to get better material with natural characteristic age . Be prepared you will have trees die . You scout and find trees at other times . Sone people collect in the fall as a tree naturally grows . Tissue in the fall . And it’s less hot and demanding on the roots for moisture . I do not do this in zone 4 thinking is spring gets max time before the first tough winter , fall would be fine if you have a greenhouse to protect the tree first winter . There is a lot more to be said on the subject . But that’s a start

If your wintering quarters can stay ABOVE freezing... Collecting in fall works... I can't really do this! My coldframe was 27dF when -22dF outside (with snow cover).... So yeah.

Agreed about collecting not being "faster".... It takes a good long while to sort out wild roots and form a respectable fine-root pad.