Time to repot? Which pot is the better choice?

[IvyBokBok]

Hello. I’m a new member and also a complete beginner to bonsai growing & raising. I have a few questions that I’ll mark in bold if you just wanna skim my walls of text. I live in the USA — Sacramento, CA.

I started growing a bonsai from a bonsai kit (bought at Barnes & Noble) around November of last year or so. I currently can’t find the kit box with the booklet though so I don’t know the exact type of bonsai I have, but it has needles for leaves. It’s seems to have been doing well, but I noticed that ever since it grew its first branch it’s just been leaning to one direction. I read on another forum that it’s probably not getting enough sunlight or something, but I’ve been leaving it by the kitchen windowsill (one of the sunniest places in my house). I’ve even tried rotating it, but it still just grows in the same direction and no new branch has grown. Does this mean I should put it outside? I did read on the beginner pinned forum that most bonsai should actually be outside.

Also, when I first noticed this, I left it alone because it was still getting new growth so I thought it was normal. Now, it seems to have stopped though so I’m sure it’s probably time to repot? The current pot it’s in is a temporary 3-4” tall plastic pot I got from Green Acres and last I measured my bonsai was ~6” tall from the soil up. I have 2 ceramic pot choices and I’m not sure which one is better. My first one I bought from iKEA — it’s a normal cylinder pot 6” deep with 1 small drainage hole. My second one I bought from Green Acres — it’s a bonsai pot that’s 3.5” deep and has 2 drainage holes with mesh and wire already included in it. Both pictures + my bonsai should be included in this post (not sure why they’re sideways though because they’re rightside-up on my phone). I also bought “bonsai soil” from Green Acres too. Right now, my bonsai is using “succulent soil” and that’s because my sister-in-law said it should be okay since succulents and bonsai water usage are kinda the same (she’s no expert either though).

 

[Attmos]

Hey, welcome to the hobby.
I'm still a beginner my self so I can't tell you what tree you have, sorry. I can tell you right now though that it NEEDS to be outside. Generally trees need to experience all four seasons, including the cold of wintertime.
I'll let one of the more experienced growers help you with your tree's health, but I wouldn't recommend repotting until early next spring.

Also, how much food and water do you give it?

 

[rockm]

ALL conifers (pine cedar spruce etc) HAVE TO BE OUTSIDE. inside light levels even on a window sill is nowhere near intense enough to keep them healthy

 

[Attmos]

ALL conifers (pine cedar spruce etc) HAVE TO BE OUTSIDE. inside light levels even on a window sill is nowhere near intense enough to keep them healthy

Right, I forgot to mention the light.

 

[rockm]

Right, I forgot to mention the light.

Keep it inside and it will die. It doesn’t need repotting and won’t for five or six years. If you put it outside now and leave it there that might happen. It won’t if you keep it inside. You’re already seeing the first signs the tree is not in the greatest of health

FWIW the pots you have are far too large for this tree. Such a large soil volume around such a small root mass will keep the soil far too wet.

 

[Attmos]

Keep it inside and it will die. It doesn’t need repotting and won’t for five or six years. If you put it outside now and leave it there that might happen. It won’t if you keep it inside. You’re already seeing the first signs the tree is not in the greatest of health

FWIW the pots you have are far too large for this tree. Such a large soil volume around such a small root mass will keep the soil far too wet.

Not my post or tree, but good advice.

 

[IvyBokBok]

Keep it inside and it will die. It doesn’t need repotting and won’t for five or six years. If you put it outside now and leave it there that might happen. It won’t if you keep it inside. You’re already seeing the first signs the tree is not in the greatest of health

FWIW the pots you have are far too large for this tree. Such a large soil volume around such a small root mass will keep the soil far too wet.

Thank you both for your replies.

Rockm, I just want to make sure I’m understanding your advice correctly: If I put it outside starting now, my bonsai may become healthy again and I can repot it in 5-6 years.

I will return the 2 pots I bought for it then, if they are too big for its current state. Is the current pot it’s in really enough though? I’m just wondering again because it seems to be growing tall. Should I be changing the soil, at least? Currently, it’s still using the succulent soil I first potted it with.

Hey, welcome to the hobby.
I'm still a beginner my self so I can't tell you what tree you have, sorry. I can tell you right now though that it NEEDS to be outside. Generally trees need to experience all four seasons, including the cold of wintertime.
I'll let one of the more experienced growers help you with your tree's health, but I wouldn't recommend repotting until early next spring.

Also, how much food and water do you give it?

I actually haven’t given it any food yet, but as for watering I only water when I notice the soil becoming dry. The pot sits in a plastic dish because I always bottom-water it. (I saw somewhere before that apparently that’s the better way to water plants?) If I notice the top soil becoming super dry, I usually give it a bit of water too.

 

[rockm]

Thank you both for your replies.

Rockm, I just want to make sure I’m understanding your advice correctly: If I put it outside starting now, my bonsai may become healthy again and I can repot it in 5-6 years.

I will return the 2 pots I bought for it then, if they are too big for its current state. Is the current pot it’s in really enough though? I’m just wondering again because it seems to be growing tall. Should I be changing the soil, at least? Currently, it’s still using the succulent soil I first potted it with.


I actually haven’t given it any food yet, but as for watering I only water when I notice the soil becoming dry. The pot sits in a plastic dish because I always bottom-water it. (I saw somewhere before that apparently that’s the better way to water plants?) If I notice the top soil becoming super dry, I usually give it a bit of water too.

You have a seedling. The truth is It is not anywhere near being a bonsai and won’t be for a very long time. If you’re really serious about making it j in to a bonsai plant it in the ground and wait five to ten years for the trunk to thicken enough to work with

 

[Attmos]

Thank you both for your replies.

Rockm, I just want to make sure I’m understanding your advice correctly: If I put it outside starting now, my bonsai may become healthy again and I can repot it in 5-6 years.

I will return the 2 pots I bought for it then, if they are too big for its current state. Is the current pot it’s in really enough though? I’m just wondering again because it seems to be growing tall. Should I be changing the soil, at least? Currently, it’s still using the succulent soil I first potted it with.


I actually haven’t given it any food yet, but as for watering I only water when I notice the soil becoming dry. The pot sits in a plastic dish because I always bottom-water it. (I saw somewhere before that apparently that’s the better way to water plants?) If I notice the top soil becoming super dry, I usually give it a bit of water too.

The hobby is definitely a practice of patience. lol

 

[IvyBokBok]

Thanks, guys! I will put it in the ground soon then.

 

[Shibui]

Your location is very important for making decisions about what to do and when because seasons and climate varies a lot all around the world. I'm sure the shop names would give us a location but I can't spend all day searching clues to work it out.
Things like repotting bonsai are seasonal so appropriate times will depend on Northern or Southern hemisphere or tropical area. Seasonal growth cycles will also mean natural pause in growth for winter so the pause in growth may be perfectly natural or not, depending on where.
How cold winters are can dictate which species can be left outside all winter and which cannot.
Adding a location to your personal profile will allow us to give much better advice.

The seedling is definitely a conifer. Most likely a pine species but that won't become clear until it develops mature needles, probably next growing season.
Most conifers should be fully winter hardy except maybe in the coldest parts of the world. Outside is definitely the best (only) place your tree will survive.

We don't usually use pots with glazed inside. Roots seem to do better in pots with glaze only on outside so the second pot would appear to be a better choice. That pot may be too big for the little seedling right now but it will be OK as a grow pot in a year or 2.
The current pot is definitely big enough for another year at least. After that it could go into a larger container for a few more years of growth and development.
Spring is usually the chosen season to repot trees for bonsai. Right before winter is not such a great time, unless you're in a tropical area.

Planting trees in the ground may allow it to grow quicker but it is easy to lose control and end up with a too tall trunk, especially with conifers that can't always be trunk chopped to reduce height.
Developing trees in pots may take a little longer but does allow better control over what's happening so using an oversize pot as a grow pot can be appropriate - depending on your aims and preferences.

 

[Ryceman3]

ALL conifers (pine cedar spruce etc) HAVE TO BE OUTSIDE. inside light levels even on a window sill is nowhere near intense enough to keep them healthy

Add to that the lack of differentiation in temperature (day/night… and seasonal) and also air flow etc and you will soon realise that keeping a seedling like you have healthy requires it to be outside. Conifers absolutely need this, not negotiable really.
How long to become a bonsai though depends on many factors however, maybe not as long as you think! This will depend on you’re location and general environment as well as care strategy to give the tree the best chance to develop.

 

[BrianBay9]

If you're reading the beginner info on this site, that's good. Consider that this tree is a fun start, but will take a considerable amount of time to be able to work it as a bonsai. Read more. Look at good bonsai here and in person. Join the Sacramento club (https://sacbonsaiclub.com/) . Then buy a few trees further along in development to work with while you're waiting on this one. The club will be a great place to buy beginner trees and continue to get advice and hands on help.

 

[IvyBokBok]

Thank you, all, for your advice. I’ve carefully read through all of them and have taken them into consideration. Since it’s going to be winter soon (and I do not live in a tropical area) I won’t plant my tree in the ground yet but I will continue to have it outside to experience more natural conditions.

 

[Wulfskaar]

I was basically in your shoes 5 years ago, getting all the same advice. It helped a lot.

*Outside is 100% where the tree should be. Once it goes outside, get rid of the bottom tray. You want water flowing out freely.

*The current pot size is fine for a couple years, but when I transplanted my seedlings into slightly larger pots after the first 2-4 years in 4" pots (like yours), they took off a bit more than the ones left in the 4" pots. I'm more concerned with the soil and soil level. It's already a 4" pot and the soil level looks a little low. Because of this, I'd consider repotting in spring into the same pot slightly larger. @rockm, would you also be concerned with the soil level in the already small pot, or am I just being picky?

*As for the species, it's hard to tell, but it reminds me of Italian Stone Pine (Pinus pinea). Maybe it also be a blue spruce?

 

[rockm]

I was basically in your shoes 5 years ago, getting all the same advice. It helped a lot.

*Outside is 100% where the tree should be. Once it goes outside, get rid of the bottom tray. You want water flowing out freely.

*The current pot size is fine for a couple years, but when I transplanted my seedlings into slightly larger pots after the first 2-4 years in 4" pots (like yours), they took off a bit more than the ones left in the 4" pots. I'm more concerned with the soil and soil level. It's already a 4" pot and the soil level looks a little low. Because of this, I'd consider repotting in spring into the same pot slightly larger. @rockm, would you also be concerned with the soil level in the already small pot, or am I just being picky?

*As for the species, it's hard to tell, but it reminds me of Italian Stone Pine (Pinus pinea). Maybe it also be a blue spruce?

I think you’re right about the soil. Remember thought that as the pot gets larger so does the water holding capacity.

 

[IvyBokBok]

Hi, guys. I’m back for an update that’s causing me a bit of a concern: my bonsai’s leaves have begun turning yellow. It may look like a pale green in the photos, but in-person they are actually yellowing. I read up that it could be a watering issue, but I’ve still been only watering it whenever the soil gets dry. I check up on it at least once every day and it’s been outside since the post where I said I’d put it outside.

Is it the sunlight? I have been putting it in a spot with direct sunlight where it stays all day. Some of the days, the sun was pretty hot though, so I’m wondering if these are signs of burning or something? Sometimes, my mom also puts it in a crate under the shade of our house’s shadow because she’s worried it might get knocked over by the cats in our neighborhood — she’s also worried about the sun’s heat, but I put it back in the sunlight since I read that bonsai need a lot of it.

 

[Wulfskaar]

It's pretty cool up there right now. I don't think it's the sun. These things have evolved over hundreds of millions of years to live outside.

I suspect the roots are too wet and/or it's adjusting to abruptly putting it outside. You could try a couple weeks in morning sun only or dappled shade, then move to full sun.

Some of my pines look similar and end up fine. I think I still have a tendency to overwater.

I'm sure other, more experienced growers will chime in.

 

[Attmos]

Hi, guys. I’m back for an update that’s causing me a bit of a concern: my bonsai’s leaves have begun turning yellow. It may look like a pale green in the photos, but in-person they are actually yellowing. I read up that it could be a watering issue, but I’ve still been only watering it whenever the soil gets dry. I check up on it at least once every day and it’s been outside since the post where I said I’d put it outside.

Is it the sunlight? I have been putting it in a spot with direct sunlight where it stays all day. Some of the days, the sun was pretty hot though, so I’m wondering if these are signs of burning or something? Sometimes, my mom also puts it in a crate under the shade of our house’s shadow because she’s worried it might get knocked over by the cats in our neighborhood — she’s also worried about the sun’s heat, but I put it back in the sunlight since I read that bonsai need a lot of it.

I think pines just drop needles. Sounds like you're taking good care of it.

 

[IvyBokBok]

Thanks, guys. I was also wondering if I was just overthinking. Sometimes I think I scare myself when I read others who have similar problems (although they usually have different species). I’ll try the morning sun method and continue to keep an eye on it!