Will, Rather than beating the dictionary to death, I would rather read how you feel about the subject from your heart. Everyone else has poured their heart and soul into their replies, while you keep trying to force down our throat that talent is is undisputable if you have it.
That is not really important to this discussion.
I disagree Al, knowing what one is talking about is always important to a discussion.
You glossed over my remarks about Ryan Neil and his apprenticeship with Kimura. Do you really feel that he will not be talented when he comes home if he did not have talent before?
Yes. If (and do mean if) he was not talented when he left, he will not be talented when he returns. He will however, no doubt return with a vast collection of skills, with a vast amount of practice on techniques, as well as a valuable knowledge base to draw from. These alone will help him to create some very good bonsai.
You once said that I was talented, in bonsai as well as woodworking. Many miles of water have passed under that bridge since then. Has your perception changed? If it has, have personel differences made that apparent. Do you feel that your talent has increased and therefore you have reached a point that you feel you are on an even basis and so now my abilities seem more craft based? Have you reached a point in your endeavor in which your talent has changed so much that you feel that bonsai forums are meaningless and have reached an entertainment stage?
Al, forums have their purpose, this purpose is different to each of us. The important thing to remember about forums is that they only represent a very small percentage of bonsaists. Some bonsai forums are useless to me only because they do not offer what I seek, not to say that others can't find something useful in them. What I was seeking did not exist on the forums before, it does now.
As Attila pointed out, there are many talents that can help a person create artistic bonsai, just as in any other art form. What amount of what talent is impossible to determine now. What is obvious is that something separates the truly great bonsai, those that are art, from the rest. Experience and time spent doing bonsai means nothing, these measurements are useless. Some people study under great masters and have for many years and still have not produced great bonsai. Other people produce great bonsai in shorter time frames with lessor instruction. Which person has talent? They both have skills, they both have the technique down, but only one produces great bonsai, and by great I mean those bonsai that take your breath away, those that are more than the sum of their parts.
It could be they both have talent, one has harnessed it, the other has not. The other may one day, he may not. But what is important is that one is creating art.
Many a mystery movie and mystery novel have been based on a surgeon losing his touch. The talent is gone. It seems to me that if one can lose it, one can gain it.
This assumes that all surgeons are talented and that assumption is false. Some surgeons may be talented, some may just be very good at applying the techniques they learned.
I knew a pool player once that was very talented, he picked up a stick and played well in his basement on the pool table there at 5 years old, at 7 he was winning tournaments. At 16 years old he broke his arm in a skiing accident and his pool game went south, he could still play, but the naturalness was gone, he had to think about it and for some reason that ruined his game. Did he lose his talent? No, he lost his ability to use it. Big difference.
Mental blocks, injuries, or other outside influences could well account for a surgeon losing his ability to apply technique or use talent. It does not mean the talent is lost, it only means that the ability to use it is lost.
Think writers block..a writer can't write, they are stuck, mentally frozen. The writer has used his talent numerous times, he just can't access it at the moment. The talent hasn't gone, it is just not accessible now.....
and so on...
Will
